BA S75 chargeback - Blacklisting?

Old May 17, 20, 6:50 pm
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BA S75 chargeback - Blacklisting?

Hi all,

Hope you are doing okay during this unpleasant time.

Just posting on here to ask if any of you have experience raising a chargeback or S75 claim against BA and if you know what the blacklisting implications are?

A business partner raised a dispute with BA regarding what they thought was a missold upgrade. BA disputed the claim. However the card company was not satisfied with their evidence, and after the 60 day dispute period in which BA failed to response to the counter evidence awarded the money back to my partner. We have not heard from BA, but according to the credit card company he has won the case and it is case closed.

I am just wondering if anyone here knows if my colleague will now likely be blacklisted? I have read on a few websites that airlines blacklist people who win chargeback claims against them but could not find any information specifically regarding BA. Most info online is to do with US based airlines blacklisting.

If he is blacklisted it would be ashame, but as he mainly flies out of BHX it will not be the end of the world. From the information I know of the case it did seem BA did not act honorably, and their customer service people gave conflicting advice.

Thanks for any help if any and once again stay safe,

FC
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Old May 17, 20, 7:44 pm
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Examples please.

Never heard of any such thing by an air carrier.
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Old May 17, 20, 8:04 pm
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If blacklisting is true, it would be quite easy to workaround it by using a different card?
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Old May 17, 20, 8:09 pm
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Hi,

I have heard that when a customer disputes a credit card transaction with an airline, airlines routinely add that customer to a blacklist (i.e they will not allow them to use their services again).

SXC - That is a good point, however I wondered if they would use email address and passport number? For example RyanAir have blacklisted unruly drunken passengers in the past using these methods
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Old May 17, 20, 8:18 pm
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Originally Posted by flyingcrazy View Post
Hi,

I have heard that when a customer disputes a credit card transaction with an airline, airlines routinely add that customer to a blacklist (i.e they will not allow them to use their services again).
I have never heard this. Certainly nothing to suggest there are such blacklists because you do a s75/chargeback, or that people are routinely being added.

Can you provide any examples? Where have you heard this and with which airlines?
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Old May 17, 20, 8:24 pm
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
I have never heard this. Certainly nothing to suggest there are such blacklists because you do a s75/chargeback, or that people are routinely being added.

Can you provide any examples? Where have you heard this and with which airlines?
Hi I am very reassured that you think there is no such precedent for this, I mainly heard this online from various websites (points guy forum etc), the main examples I heard were of Delta adding individuals who had raised and won chargeback claims from the airline via their cc provider. I has also read that airlines such as BA and the major US airlines on a twitter profile of a high profile frequent flyer and reviewer that major airlines such as BA blacklist people who raise chargeback claims against them.

If this is untrue then that would be a relief, as it would seem unjust. I can understand if some chargeback claims are unjust but if the consumer has a genuine claim then it seems ridiculous. In this case BA were in the wrong from what I have seen.
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Old May 17, 20, 8:34 pm
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Originally Posted by flyingcrazy View Post
Hi I am very reassured that you think there is no such precedent for this, I mainly heard this online from various websites (points guy forum etc), the main examples I heard were of Delta adding individuals who had raised and won chargeback claims from the airline via their cc provider. I has also read that airlines such as BA and the major US airlines on a twitter profile of a high profile frequent flyer and reviewer that major airlines such as BA blacklist people who raise chargeback claims against them.

If this is untrue then that would be a relief, as it would seem unjust. I can understand if some chargeback claims are unjust but if the consumer has a genuine claim then it seems ridiculous. In this case BA were in the wrong from what I have seen.
I have never heard of it on the BA/BAEC board on here.

Tbh there is a lot of stuff written out there on twitter/FB by supposed high profile frequent flyers which is complete rubbish. At least with FT what is posted is peer reviewed - if I posted some rubbish on here there would be plenty of knowledgeable and experienced flyers who would quickly correct me.
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Old May 17, 20, 9:07 pm
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Rental car companies have a blacklist. So I am sure airlines have a black list but I thought it would be for much serious matter than a ticket issue.
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Old May 17, 20, 9:44 pm
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Originally Posted by Centurion View Post
Rental car companies have a blacklist. So I am sure airlines have a black list but I thought it would be for much serious matter than a ticket issue.
airlines do - but I have never heard of anything in relation to a valid claim being lodged against the airline via a credit card dispute

I know that Hertz doesn't blacklist simply for a disputed transaction where the dispute is valid
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Old May 17, 20, 10:20 pm
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I'm writing the tenth post on this thread, and as yet nobody has produced one scrap of evidence.
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Old May 18, 20, 12:21 am
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I know for certain in Canada, and I think the USA as well that the airline's Tariff will describe under what conditions an airline can ban a person from using their services. It's generally for the most severe behaviour, and even then airlines have obligations by virtue of being a common carrier. For example, if only one airline serves a remote community and air is the only way in or out ( not an uncommon situation in northern Canada) then if the airline banned a person from flying they would effectively be stranding them in that community forever and preventing access to medical services for example. The tariff would forbid that.

Certainly for a commercial chargeback where BA has had an opportunity to respond; that would not warrant a blacklist. A mid-flight assault on a crewmember causing serious injury- yes.
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Old May 18, 20, 12:50 am
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Can you imagine the Daily Mail headline?

”Banned from BA for trying to get my money back”

Not gonna happen.

And as many others have said, BA has been one of the better companies when it comes to refunds. Sure, it’s a pain having to phone but try getting your money back in a timely manner right now from Ryanair, Virgin or a cruise line.
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Old May 18, 20, 1:15 am
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BA is not good at refunding money in the sort of circumstances you describe.

If you look through the EC261 thread in this forum you’ll see innumerable examples where BA will flatly deny refunds or compensation for what seem to be clear-cut cases - indeed, even with examples where they have previously lost at arbitration.

They rely on most people accepting their word, or not having the inclination to do the work on a submission to either the arbitration body CEDR or the small claims court process MCOL.

Of course, a subset of those denied do have the inclination, might well find their way here, and end up winning either in arbitration or court. Those are processes that cost BA far more in time, cost and effort to defend - yet I’m not aware of a single person that’s been blacklisted. From personal experience on one occasion, that includes me and the amount was a lot more than your friend’s upgrade would have been - and I’ve flown plenty of BA sectors since without issue.

In other words, BA accepts that if it’s obstructive then some people will decide to take matters further - S75 claims are just another one of those situations where they will shrug their shoulders and accept the consequences of that policy. Your friend has nothing to be concerned about - besides, right now BA really, really needs paying passengers!

Last edited by NWIFlyer; May 18, 20 at 1:41 am
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Old May 18, 20, 1:42 am
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Originally Posted by GumshoeW12 View Post
Can you imagine the Daily Mail headline?

”Banned from BA for trying to get my money back”

Not gonna happen.

And as many others have said, BA has been one of the better companies when it comes to refunds. Sure, it’s a pain having to phone but try getting your money back in a timely manner right now from Ryanair, Virgin or a cruise line.
The cruise line we were going to use this month cancelled and refunded immediately afterwards without us even asking. I know BA isn't doing this from personal experience.
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Old May 18, 20, 2:14 am
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I doubt that BA would do this, but it's probably a reeasonable question. There are some stories of Ryanair banning passengers who use blacklisting, here is one such tale from Reddit but there are other examples out there. To be fair, this is customer contact staff in Ryanair trying to prevent people from using Chargeback or Section 75, what actually happens in real life, when Ryanair (and BA) run their reservations purely via computers which can be asked to provide and correct any personal data, is very much another matter. I doubt the CAA will be impressed, for example. In a somewhat different space, Nationwide decided to discontinue the bank accounts of some people who took advantage of a legal settlement relating to the way interest rate charges were calculated (similar to the one ongoing on BA for the data breach). The FOS ombudsman made it clear that their office was unimpressed by this outcome and later on a senior manager in Nationwide said it was the wrong thing to do.

In the case of Amex Chargebacks, I happen to know that several hundred thousand chargebacks have been entered against BA, and since they are usually processed by two separate locked down teams in India, Amex have received virtually no communication back from BA when chargebacks have been launched, so Amex has just paid them. I suspect this is a mess that will need to be sorted out at some point but I can't see the passenger being disadvantaged, BA needs Amex on its side more than ever at the moment.

Airlines would be well advised not to blacklist Section 75 claimants due to wider consumer protection on discriminatory trading.

Finally, what very little I know about when BA does ban passengers, it's to do with bad behaviour against staff. The bar is set quite high, in that just telling a BA staff member to get stuffed will probably be ignored, and even if you do a low level assault on a BA staff member - thankfully a very rare event - you would be looking at say a 2 year ban. A well known South London model with significant anger management issues (and previous form to boot) only got 2 years. So in that context I can't see BA getting too worked up over a few hundred pounds of chargeback, particularly if there was some basis to the claim.

Last edited by corporate-wage-slave; May 18, 20 at 2:21 am
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