Cruz speaks: "this is worse than 9/11"
Mar 14, 2020, 6:50 pm
#151
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,061
The collective cost of the (relatively) small pilot body exceeds that of the (much larger) cabin crew body, such is the skewed nature of flight economics and would consequently be a sensible place to start, particularly at a time when the supply of pilots to the marketplace has suddenly ballooned and may continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Sadly I suspect the reality will be far different, and BALPA will throw the other 40,000 BA colleagues to the dogs to maintain their privileged position even further.
Mar 14, 2020, 7:13 pm
#152
Join Date: Mar 2015
Programs: BA GGL
Posts: 2,447
It is not a downturn. The measures some governments are implementing are dealing death blows to the travel industry. Do not forget that airlines fly almost empty planes during some months without laying off staff because they know that the passengers will come back, the same applies to hotels. There will always be slow periods for the travel industry, and the travel industry have never responded with layoffs for those slow periods. This madness is different though. Airlines won't make people redundant because there is no demand in the next few months, they will do it because they do not see demand long-term. The panic was created, the genie is out of the bottle and there is no putting him back in.
Also, businesses do not owe us an explanation about their redundancy plans and reasons for implementing them. That's between the employer and the employees.
I am not sure what solution you have in mind for the travel industry in this situation but from where I stand, they are in deep ****. This is why the governments must step in because this is of their own making and they must protect people's livelihoods.
Also, businesses do not owe us an explanation about their redundancy plans and reasons for implementing them. That's between the employer and the employees.
I am not sure what solution you have in mind for the travel industry in this situation but from where I stand, they are in deep ****. This is why the governments must step in because this is of their own making and they must protect people's livelihoods.
I normally go abroad a lot, spend money in local bars, cafes, restaurants, at gigs, in hotels, etc. Many others on here do this too, as does a far, far bigger audience overall.
Right now we're facing a crisis where even locals aren't going to those places in their vicinity. Irrespective of location, nationality, and so forth, those industries are therefore losing out - to the point of imploding.
When you lose such pubs, bars, venues, cafes, meeting spots, sports grounds, restaurants, and all other varieties under this umbrella, you lose culture. The lack of that doesn't make people want to travel to such locations.
So we all need - while not spending money on flying - to go to our local vendors, utilise them, enjoy them, preserve the culture for future properity for all.
Because, right now, irrelevant of flights being grounded, we're perilously close to losing it all...
Mar 14, 2020, 7:18 pm
#153
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,281
I suspect they'll use the opportunity to make all the WW and EURO fleet members redundant. Perhaps it was always the plan to do this at the next downturn. Then when things pick up they can do loads of Mixed Fleet hiring.
Mar 15, 2020, 12:54 am
#154
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
About half of the flying staff is WW/Eurofleet and it takes 3-4 months to hire, train and get somebody ready to fly. Plus there's a need to have a balance between experienced and inexperienced crews. If you axe the entire 'senior' fleets you can't ramp up afterwards.
Also, Cruz's email talked about cash position. Firing a lot of people requires a lot of severance. His email also referred to short and long term unemployment. I think they'll revert to what they reverted to after 9/11 and the 2008 crash, i.e. offering one year off ("Business Response Scheme" I believe it was called), putting people into early retirement as well as outright redundancies.
After VS, the trade body too has called the Government to do something, with some pretty strong words:
Coronavirus: 'Future of UK aviation' at risk, say airlines
In a stark message, Airlines UK said the government's "prevarication" and "bean counting" had to stop."We're talking about the future of UK aviation - one of our world-class industries - and unless the government pulls itself together who knows what will be left of it once we get out of this mess," it added.
Last edited by 13901; Mar 15, 2020 at 1:32 am
Mar 15, 2020, 5:20 am
#155
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rhineland-Palatinate
Programs: *A Gold (A3), HHonor Gold
Posts: 5,699
Traffic Saturday compared to 365 days ago. This will worsen with the new restrictions. The Lufthansa group is the most affected, with El Al and Alitalia.
Mar 15, 2020, 5:40 am
#156
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Newcastle-upon-Tyne
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 177
Mar 15, 2020, 5:56 am
#158
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: UK
Programs: BA Silver, IHG Platinum
Posts: 943
I wonder how the flight loads are, compared with last year?
BA based on that list is less affected than a lot of other airlines, but is no doubt eating quite a cost on poorly-loaded planes that are (or at least were) still departing.
US ban will also see BA move up a fair bit I imagine.
BA based on that list is less affected than a lot of other airlines, but is no doubt eating quite a cost on poorly-loaded planes that are (or at least were) still departing.
US ban will also see BA move up a fair bit I imagine.
Mar 15, 2020, 6:30 am
#159
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,061
I love the irony in the Airlines UK statement complaining about ‘bean counting’. Pot, kettle, and all that.
Mar 15, 2020, 8:18 am
#160
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,106
UK employment law relating to redundancies won't allow a simplistic selection process based on one person doing the same job as another costing more to employ. Indeed, the opposite could occur as those who have been employed for less that two years can be disposed of very easily - and at very little cost to the employer.
Mar 15, 2020, 8:19 am
#161
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
Do you think BA will be announcing their cuts to the schedule in the coming week?
Mar 15, 2020, 8:38 am
#162
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,281
Statutory redundancy pay is low - for someone with 10 years service you're looking at about 5k-7.5k all in, maximum. That's equivalent to 1 or 2 CW tickets per cabin crew member.
Mar 15, 2020, 9:00 am
#163
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London
Programs: BA - Gold for Life, CCR & GGL; IC Spire Elite Ambassador; Diamond Hilton Honors; Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 6,720
Mar 15, 2020, 1:54 pm
#165
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,281
But BA is a ruthless business. I hope that any government bail out comes with strict conditions on treating staff and passengers fairly.