BA First Helicopter Ride - QC [Quebec, Canada] Lawsuit
Jan 27, 2020, 4:02 pm
#46
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: RTW
Posts: 677
tariff of operating carrier always applies
the tariff is pretty clear... you seat in the first cabin this tariff rule applies. I’d also note it applies to business.
FIRST CLASS OR "F" - FARES APPLY WHEN TRAVEL IS IN THE FIRST CLASS COMPARTMENT OF COMBINATION COMPORTMENT AIRCRAFT.
the tariff is pretty clear... you seat in the first cabin this tariff rule applies. I’d also note it applies to business.
FIRST CLASS OR "F" - FARES APPLY WHEN TRAVEL IS IN THE FIRST CLASS COMPARTMENT OF COMBINATION COMPORTMENT AIRCRAFT.
To me, your 2017 post & blog linked above, together with the advice received in reply at that time, makes it clear that this wasn't a genuine query from a confused member of the FT community and that you were well aware of the unlikelihood of the particular benefit. As it took you two years to book, you could of course have considered the advice received and then checked with CX or BA.....
And what exactly did you edit out of this original 2017 post two years later in Aug 2019, at or around the same date as you bought your ticket - presumably something even more unhelpful?
Jan 27, 2020, 4:08 pm
#47
Join Date: Nov 2013
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The timing of this thread is quite unfortunate, given the recent tragic news of a loss of 9 people, 1 of which an extremely influential person. My thoughts go out to them and their loved ones.
And in another story, I met a senior aviation lawyer for a multinational avionics company who told me very bluntly and plainly don’t ever fly in a helicopter...! It was a random meeting but a piece of advice that has always stuck with me.
Anyway I’m still not sure the purpose of this thread. But I’d stay away from helicopters. (My own opinion)
And in another story, I met a senior aviation lawyer for a multinational avionics company who told me very bluntly and plainly don’t ever fly in a helicopter...! It was a random meeting but a piece of advice that has always stuck with me.
Anyway I’m still not sure the purpose of this thread. But I’d stay away from helicopters. (My own opinion)
Jan 27, 2020, 4:19 pm
#48
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
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That's not how airline contracts work. So what applies is the fare rules (in this case, the fare rules governing the award ticket). Some airlines will have additional conditions of carriage, like BA (General Conditions of Carriage) others will simply have the tariff, also known as the Contract of Carriage. The tariff is the "supreme" document that governs your travel - all rights and obligations stem from it. Other documents, such as the fare rules, will govern the nitpicky details of your travel.
Jan 27, 2020, 4:21 pm
#49
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That's not how airline contracts work. So what applies is the fare rules (in this case, the fare rules governing the award ticket). Some airlines will have additional conditions of carriage, like BA (General Conditions of Carriage) others will simply have the tariff, also known as the Contract of Carriage. The tariff is the "supreme" document that governs your travel - all rights and obligations stem from it. Other documents, such as the fare rules, will govern the nitpicky details of your travel.
While no one is saying BA is a small-time victim, and in fact most people here would side with you -- suing for a helicopter ride (or its monetary equivalent) from BA over outdated tarriffs makes you look entitled, and I'm speaking purely on optics.
Jan 27, 2020, 4:22 pm
#50
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Glasgow, UK
Programs: BA Gold
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If so, you may well be in the right here on strictly technical grounds. But given the homework involved to obtain this information, I do wonder how reasonable you are.
Either way, I’m sure some poor soul in Waterside has been tasked with reviewing all fare tariffs lodged with every regulator around the world and correcting any further errors like this one.
Best of luck with your case OP. I can’t wait to find out the result!
Jan 27, 2020, 4:23 pm
#51
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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You may be factually correct, you might be legally correct, but that doesn't make you morally correct. Similar to the Harvard professor that threatened to sue a Chinese takeout restaurant in MA for overcharging him for $4. (That's Ben Edelman, who is widely known in frequent flyer circles.)
While no one is saying BA is a small-time victim, and in fact most people here would side with you -- suing for a helicopter ride (or its monetary equivalent) from BA over outdated tarriffs makes you look entitled, and I'm speaking purely on optics.
While no one is saying BA is a small-time victim, and in fact most people here would side with you -- suing for a helicopter ride (or its monetary equivalent) from BA over outdated tarriffs makes you look entitled, and I'm speaking purely on optics.
In other words, some form of Freedom of Information request (or the Canadian equivalent) had to be made in order to receive this information? This information is not easily found online or at any BA point of sale? And information, if BA is to be believed, is 27 years old and would seem to still be “valid” with a foreign (to BA) Transport Ministry due to some administrative oversight?
If so, you may well be in the right here on strictly technical grounds. But given the homework involved to obtain this information, I do wonder how reasonable you are.
Either way, I’m sure some poor soul in Waterside has been tasked with reviewing all fare tariffs lodged with every regulator around the world and correcting any further errors like this one.
Best of luck with your case OP. I can’t wait to find out the result!
If so, you may well be in the right here on strictly technical grounds. But given the homework involved to obtain this information, I do wonder how reasonable you are.
Either way, I’m sure some poor soul in Waterside has been tasked with reviewing all fare tariffs lodged with every regulator around the world and correcting any further errors like this one.
Best of luck with your case OP. I can’t wait to find out the result!
No, the tariff in this case was what you paid to CX in Asia Miles. Probably a mistake to book this way if you really wanted to chance your arm?
To me, your 2017 post & blog linked above, together with the advice received in reply at that time, makes it clear that this wasn't a genuine query from a confused member of the FT community and that you were well aware of the unlikelihood of the particular benefit. As it took you two years to book, you could of course have considered the advice received and then checked with CX or BA.....
And what exactly did you edit out of this original 2017 post two years later in Aug 2019, at or around the same date as you bought your ticket - presumably something even more unhelpful?
To me, your 2017 post & blog linked above, together with the advice received in reply at that time, makes it clear that this wasn't a genuine query from a confused member of the FT community and that you were well aware of the unlikelihood of the particular benefit. As it took you two years to book, you could of course have considered the advice received and then checked with CX or BA.....
And what exactly did you edit out of this original 2017 post two years later in Aug 2019, at or around the same date as you bought your ticket - presumably something even more unhelpful?
I've asked the moderator to "re-edit" the post from the prior forum and publish it. That has been done. You can now see the original content.
Last edited by Prospero; Feb 1, 2020 at 12:37 pm Reason: Merge consecutive posts
Jan 27, 2020, 4:46 pm
#52
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Glasgow, UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 629
Actually the story behind how I found this out is different. I'm actually the one (and maybe only?) person who reads airline tariffs.. out of interest. This particular tariff I found on the Canadian Transportation Agency's website. When it became a matter of interest I then confirmed that the same content appeared in the US tariff by emailing the DOT, since airline tariffs are not publicly posted in the USA.
You may very well be right and it is to BA’s misfortune that you were able to get this old but hitherto unretracted tarrif. But I’m not convinced it’s reasonable. Happily, I’m not the one that needs to be convinced
But your chutzpah is certainly to be admired. Best of luck!
Jan 27, 2020, 4:51 pm
#53
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
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The tariffs are available on BA’s website, here...
https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...urce=BOT_legal
listed under “These rules apply when you travel to and from Canada.”
https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...urce=BOT_legal
listed under “These rules apply when you travel to and from Canada.”
Jan 27, 2020, 4:52 pm
#54
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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The fact you had go through the not-insignificant hurdles or trawling through a 300+ page, poorly scanned document and verifying with a 3rd party country’s regulator goes some way to proving my point, though.
You may very well be right and it is to BA’s misfortune that you were able to get this old but hitherto unretracted tarrif. But I’m not convinced it’s reasonable. Happily, I’m not the one that needs to be convinced
But your chutzpah is certainly to be admired. Best of luck!
You may very well be right and it is to BA’s misfortune that you were able to get this old but hitherto unretracted tarrif. But I’m not convinced it’s reasonable. Happily, I’m not the one that needs to be convinced
But your chutzpah is certainly to be admired. Best of luck!
and really, punished for actually reading the contract?
Last edited by durberville; Jan 27, 2020 at 7:15 pm
Jan 27, 2020, 4:55 pm
#56
Join Date: May 2011
Location: CWL
Programs: BA Blue, Hilton Gold
Posts: 300
I predict BA will settle the case and included in that settlement will be a non disclosure agreement with the OP, and we FT’ers will forever (well, until the next interesting topic comes along) wonder what happened.
After which ‘claiming the First Helicopter’ will have a questions and advice thread, much like a mistake fare, that will last for a whole week before BA finally gets around to updating the tariffs.
The final act is a mad scramble to review hundreds of tariffs for all airlines on every route, in the hope of finding long forgotten ‘golden eggs’ which you can then claim we’re not fulfilled.
After which ‘claiming the First Helicopter’ will have a questions and advice thread, much like a mistake fare, that will last for a whole week before BA finally gets around to updating the tariffs.
The final act is a mad scramble to review hundreds of tariffs for all airlines on every route, in the hope of finding long forgotten ‘golden eggs’ which you can then claim we’re not fulfilled.
Jan 27, 2020, 4:56 pm
#57
Join Date: Nov 2013
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I'm curious since my legal experience is only what I see on television. If BA loses and the verdict is for OP for the full amount, does that mean BA would be liable to others who flew in F into JFK and did not receive a helicopter flight? Or would it be more likely limited to those who were denied the perk when they requested it?
Jan 27, 2020, 4:57 pm
#58
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Posts: 961
I'm curious since my legal experience is only what I see on television. If BA loses and the verdict is for OP for the full amount, does that mean BA would be liable to others who flew in F into JFK and did not receive a helicopter flight? Or would it be more likely limited to those who were denied the perk when they requested it?
