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-   -   Allergies - when is it too much ? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1996062-allergies-when-too-much.html)

UKtravelbear Nov 19, 2019 9:38 am


Originally Posted by ttama (Post 31753833)
How many deaths are you prepared to cause by eating nuts on a plane? How long do you think you could cope with not eating nuts, if you know it could cause the death of a fellow passenger? If you think your need for nuts outweighs the need for someone else to live, then you've answered your question. Simples. Why bother asking for other people's opinions to validate your own, if you're sure of own opinion. Because otherwise it just looks like victim-blaming.

How many deaths have there been on BA flights due to a nut allergy?

When was the last one and the one before that?

snaxmuppet Nov 19, 2019 9:44 am


Originally Posted by HarryHolden68 (Post 31753875)
Is it just me that thinks if someone has, in this case, a potentially life threatening nut allergy, inserting themselves inside a confined space, for several hours, a long way from professional medical help with a group of strangers who have little understanding of their allergy is playing Russian roulette?

Going on public transport and expecting everyone to cooperate with whatever you desire (don't smell, don't snore, don't drink too much, don't drink too little, open the window blind, close the window blind, bang my legs every time your weak bladder talks) is asking too much IMO.

If the allergy is that severe, consider taking personal responsibility for your own safety.

Puts on Flack Jacket, hard hat and Hi-Viz.

Travel is not always from choice so short of hiring a provate jet (not something many people can afford) there isn't much choice if someone with allergies has to travel. IMO we should be prepared to be inconvenienced if someone needs us to behave in a certain way to stay alive but I don't think it is sensible to inconvenience everyone of the flight if there is no benefit to the person concerned.


Originally Posted by Duck1981 (Post 31754139)
I had it twice on my recent 2 flights, and given that people can simply die when they eat/ come in touch with nuts, I am happy not to have nuts on the plane and just now I am wondering why someone would need to challenge this.

There aren't many challenging this on this thread AFAICS. I am not. The key is "eat/come into contact with nuts". If someone is in row 1 then the evidence is that someone eating nuts at the back is not going to increase that risk. The question for me is not that we do what we have to do to help the person with an allergy but does the whole plane need to not eat nuts and should the crew wash their hands before serving someone with such an allergy?

zerosideslip Nov 19, 2019 9:47 am

I remember being lectured by my doctor brother about the definitions of allergy versus intolerance when he said his son had a reaction when near cats and I asked if he is allergic. I think many people use the word allergy when they mean intolerance. I am not a medic so forgive me if I am over simplifying things but it seems to me an immune system reaction leading possibly to death is different from an upset stomach or facial swelling etc etc that may be darned uncomfortable but not life-threatening

IBJoel Nov 19, 2019 9:47 am

RE: Increased prevalence of peanut allergies, perhaps this can shed some light: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/2ohd7e

bisonrav Nov 19, 2019 9:53 am


Originally Posted by UKtravelbear (Post 31754300)
How many deaths have there been on BA flights due to a nut allergy?

When was the last one and the one before that?

I think that's sort of what having a risk reduction policy is supposed to achieve, isn't it?

snaxmuppet Nov 19, 2019 9:56 am


Originally Posted by UKtravelbear (Post 31754300)
How many deaths have there been on BA flights due to a nut allergy?

When was the last one and the one before that?

In fact... can anyone point me to a link where someone has had a severe allergic reaction anywhere due to airborne allergens or even to transfer from hands? I am not saying it hasn't happened but it must be quite rare. I can't find any evidence on Google (not that Google is any authority but it does catch most stuff like this IMO). Like I say... the response to this should be evidence based and reasonable. By that I mean that we should do all that is necessary to keep others safe. If it is clear that airborne allergen or transfer from hands can put others at risk then we should aim to prevent it and if that means a ban aircraft wide then so be it. The evidence, as far as I can ascertain, does not suggest that is necessary.

elwe Nov 19, 2019 10:02 am


Originally Posted by snaxmuppet (Post 31754375)
In fact... can anyone point me to a link where someone has had a severe allergic reaction anywhere due to airborne allergens or even to transfer from hands? I am not saying it hasn't happened but it must be quite rare. I can't find any evidence on Google (not that Google is any authority but it does catch most stuff like this IMO). Like I say... the response to this should be evidence based and reasonable. By that I mean that we should do all that is necessary to keep others safe. If it is clear that airborne allergen or transfer from hands can put others at risk then we should aim to prevent it and if that means a ban aircraft wide then so be it. The evidence, as far as I can ascertain, does not suggest that is necessary.

Does death from bee stings count as airborne allergens? ;)

Bohinjska Bistrica Nov 19, 2019 10:28 am

There have been a few occasions I've been on an aircraft that hasn't been entirely clean and have seen numerous crumbs including nuts lying on the floor. If a passenger with a serious allergy was on this aircraft, surely this poses as much risk to them as a passenger several rows away eating nuts would? I am not sure how it could be ensured that any given aircraft was completely free of all nut traces.

It is better to be safe than sorry, but I question whether the total ban in such circumstances is overkill.

Ancient Observer Nov 19, 2019 10:45 am

snax,
Yes. A friend of mine has a number of allergies. Nuts is one of them.
On a BA flight Bru to LHR, on landing, the plane had to go as close as it could to the Medical centre. Ambulance to bottom of steps. Friend was at risk of dying.
Undeclared nuts in a snack that had been served.

My daughter has allergies to both sorts of nuts, but has managed so far to manage the issues with travelling quietly.

Oaxaca Nov 19, 2019 11:05 am


Originally Posted by Vinotraveller (Post 31753950)
I have had this announcement twice in over 500 flights taken since May 2013 when I started keeping record of such things.

Compare that to the following in the same period;

Three go-arounds, two cancelled flights, one case of a passenger being offloaded by Police, one diversion en-route, two flights missed due to traffic, two connections missed due to late inbounds, one rejected take off.

Yes I know I am very sad keeping such notes. It would suggest in this totally non-scientific sample of one that you are more likely to have a go-around than a nut allergy announcement.

Interesting. I don't keep such detailed and accurate notes, but would say in the last year somewhere between 5-10% of my BA flights have had a nut allergy announcement, and I've had one BA go-around in that time (well, technically it was Air Belgium, but I'm counting it as BA). So, in my non-scientific sample of one, you are far more likely to have a nut allergy announcement than a go-around :)

More seriously, I have noticed a definite increase in such announcements on BA in the last 12-18 months. Before that, it was noticeable to me that such announcements were a regular occurrence on my U2 flights, but hardly ever on BA. Now, there are a noticeable number on BA too.

On one flight earlier this year, CC served me a bowl of nuts in F while the "no nuts" announcement was being made over the PA. The explanation provided was that F and the flight deck were on a different air circulation system to other parts of the aircraft. I have no idea if this is true (A380), just what was said. On another flight, pax were offloaded because the crew were concerned about their health relating to allergies, can't recall if that was nuts or something else. Both flights were BA.

Redhead Nov 19, 2019 11:39 am

I am the mother of a child with a peanut allergy. We are blessed that we completed OIT (Oral Immunotherapy - www.oit101.org ) and she is not longer reactive. But the flights that we took before her OIT completion were nerve-racking experiences. We knew she was reactive only upon ingestion, but we still wiped down all seats, arm rests, tables, etc. We do have friends who ARE highly reactive and even touching something touched by someone eating nuts will send them into anaphalaxis. So if someone eats nuts on the plane and then opens the bathroom door, and then my friend opens that bathroom door, she could go into anaphalaxis. I appreciate the inconvienence, but really, this is someone's life. We flew with 3 sets (so 6 total) epi-pens - but most people can't afford to travel with $1,800 worth of medicine that they hope to never use. (yes, a 2-pack of epi-pen jr costs $600 until I hit my deductible)

1 in 13 kids have a food allergy, peanuts and tree nuts are the most common allergies. All we ask for is some compassion and understanding as we try to keep our kids alive. Allergies are indeed becoming more common. They are investigating why but some suspected reasons are: overuse of anti-bacterial cleansers and increased use of pesticides and chemicals that impact our immune systems. We have zero history of food allergies in our family and I know there are none on my daughter's donors side (a plus from having 3 generations of medical history from a sperm donor).

Tesla1856 Nov 19, 2019 11:56 am

I have what used to be considered a severe nut (peanut in particular) allergy. That is if I eat some - it likely a trip to ER. I have benadryl and a EpiPen with me for all travel or food events.

However its not as severe as some these days where the smell or presence of nuts in a cabin would do me serious harm - only mild issues. I am also asthmatic. That said - I now carry a specially treated mask that folds flat in my backpack - not only for an issue like nuts - but for wild fires and smoke, fumes, dust storms, people hacking up a lung next to me for 4 hours.... its good for virus, smoke, etc.

djp98374 Nov 19, 2019 1:04 pm


Originally Posted by muscat (Post 31753088)
Numerous researchers have found that people are extremely unlikely to suffer anaphylaxis as a result of exposure to airborne nut dust. I’d ask any person claiming this (to be allergic) how many auto-injectors they carry; if the number is less than two I’d question their personal approach to managing their allergy. (Or is it actually an intolerance?)

The bottom line is that flying with a peanut allergy and being exposed to potential sources of peanut in the cabin is not likely to represent an increased risk to the peanut allergic flier. There is no evidence to support peanut vapor as a cause of reactions or that peanut dust itself circulates and causes reactions. There is evidence that common surfaces on an airplane may have residual peanut contamination, but there is also evidence that this can be readily cleaned with commercial agents that passengers can bring aboard themselves, and that doing such cleaning has been noted to reduce the risk of reporting an in-flight reaction. https://www.aaaai.org/ask-the-expert/peanut-air-travel

The simple fact there are different levels of allergy to something like nuts as there are people who have different levels when exposed to things like pollens, mold, dust, animal hair.

the issue is knowing what your level of allergy is.....for some its just being near it vs your hand tuches something with it and then when your hand goes to eyes, nose, or mounth, an allerguc reaction occurs.

In a plane allergies are a real concern snf must ne avoided.

I have allergies to many nature things and snimal dander. i am not allergic to peanits but I am allergice to many types of seafood.

With seafood--its about eating it. someone sitting next to me will not matter. there are others who get sick just from the smell of seafood.

With a pet..If I am on a shortflight like say 1 hr I could tolerate being next to someone with a pet if its in the carry box and the person isnt pulling the pet out during flight. If it s along 6+ hr flight I have a far bigger issue.

abligh Nov 19, 2019 1:11 pm

I remember ~4 "no nuts" announcements in ~100 flights, if that's a useful data point. I also remember that on one that floor was very dirty and very likely contained nut residue (I wasn't going to poke around and look).

I think there is a "where does it stop?" question. No one is going to argue (I hope) eating peanuts on a flight is reasonable where a passenger has a severe life-threatenting peanut allergy. However, that's one extreme. Another is alcohol. I know someone for whom the very smell of alcohol will give them a severe headache. Others (recovering alcoholics, some people of some religions) are uncomfortable in the presence of alcohol. Personally I don't think it would be reasonable to ban alcohol from a cabin in which one such person travelled. Drawing the line is hard.

bisonrav Nov 19, 2019 1:59 pm

No, it's fairly easy to draw the line. BA has strict liability, that means they are responsible for any event that happens even if it wasn't their fault unless they've taken every reasonable precaution to prevent it. They do not have to have been negligent. There is danger of a passenger becoming seriously ill or dying. Therefore the action they take is not to serve nuts themselves, and to warn the other passengers of the situation. Other passengers can opine all they like about the actual risk being small, they are not the ones being litigated against if there is an event.


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