Sneaking into Club and getting away with it..

Old Jul 10, 19, 3:22 pm
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Sneaking into Club and getting away with it..

Did any of you see the article in the telegraph article about the WT passenger sneaking into Club (appears to be the SIN-SYD sector) and getting away with it? (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/comment/how-i-sneaked-into-business-class-from-economy-true-story/)

Iíve heard of this happening before on the domestic flights into CE, but never heard of it before in long-haul Club. I was always under the impression that there are strict security procedures around checking and double-checking the right number of passengers in each cabin, but maybe Iím wrong. Also I would have thought the iPad would have said the seat in question was empty, maybe they didnít check.

Grudging respect for trying (and getting away with it!) or out-of-order (especially when a lot of people in that cabin would have paid thousands for their tickets)? Never thought I would see this happening on BA.


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Old Jul 10, 19, 3:28 pm
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It's been noted in the main Media thread, where I expect your post will be merged to soon

BA in the media 2019
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Old Jul 10, 19, 3:29 pm
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Article is pay to read?
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Old Jul 10, 19, 3:32 pm
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I was on a domestic last week where a couple clearly tried to sneak into CE and were send back to their proper seats by the SCCM. The frustrating thing here is that there doesn't seem to be a sanction against these people. If the worst that can happen is being sent back to your assigned seats, then there is no reason not to try it on every flight. If they were asked to pay the fare difference, or repeat offenders charged with fraud, then it may be a different matter.
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Old Jul 10, 19, 3:34 pm
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Originally Posted by ThatT1Feeling View Post
I was on a domestic last week where a couple clearly tried to sneak into CE and were send back to their proper seats by the SCCM. The frustrating thing here is that there doesn't seem to be a sanction against these people. If the worst that can happen is being sent back to your assigned seats, then there is no reason not to try it on every flight. If they were asked to pay the fare difference, or repeat offenders charged with fraud, then it may be a different matter.
Fraud? Are you serious?

What do you suggest the sanction to be then? I think you are seriously exaggerating, making it sound like a criminal offence! God forbid I sit in another empty seat if I don't like my assigned one and there is a better one empty because I did not pay for it, I am in trouble?

If the OP story person got away with it, good for them! The worst thing that should happen is they are sent back to their seats, it's up to crew to enforce this and that's that.
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Old Jul 10, 19, 3:39 pm
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Originally Posted by ahmetdouas View Post
The worst thing that should happen is they are sent back to their seats, it's up to crew to enforce this and that's that.
Are you serious? Is that the worst thing that you think should happen? So therefore it's OK for everyone to sit where they want and the biggest sanction is to be sent back to the seat you have paid for?
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Old Jul 10, 19, 3:43 pm
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Originally Posted by ThatT1Feeling View Post
Are you serious? Is that the worst thing that you think should happen? So therefore it's OK for everyone to sit where they want and the biggest sanction is to be sent back to the seat you have paid for?
Absolutely. And that's why BA has common sense, and just looks to enforce the rule, not arrest them for 'fraud'. If the passenger refuses to move and becomes aggressive, then that's another matter, but the charge there would then be refusing to follow the crew's instructions if anything else, a much bigger allegation than sitting in a seat you are not supposed to!
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Old Jul 10, 19, 3:49 pm
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The action of the passenger as it happens neatly matches the definition of fraud under Section 11 of the Fraud Act 2006, based on the premise that the passenger knew that they were sitting in a higher class than that paid for, with no intention of paying the due fare for that cabin. In the case I described, based on the Gold tags on the passenger's case, it was not an innocent mistake.

Somewhere between the position of "it's OK, let everyone sit where they want, irrespective of the class of service they've paid for" and "arrest every passenger who innocently sits in the wrong seat" is probably the right approach.
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Old Jul 10, 19, 3:50 pm
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If you sneak into first class on a train you are required to pay the difference in your fare. This is enforceable. Why is an aircraft any different?
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Old Jul 10, 19, 3:54 pm
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Originally Posted by PAL62V View Post
If you sneak into first class on a train you are required to pay the difference in your fare. This is enforceable. Why is an aircraft any different?
Railway bylaws criminalise such behaviour.
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Old Jul 10, 19, 4:03 pm
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Originally Posted by PAL62V View Post
If you sneak into first class on a train you are required to pay the difference in your fare. This is enforceable. Why is an aircraft any different?
This isnít the case (in the UK at least). The very minimum you will have to pay is a Penalty Fare which is £20 or double the First Class single fare to the next station. Whatever is highest. Of course if you wished to continue your journey, youíd then have to purchase a separate ticket to your final destination. In many cases, if the inspector suspects you were trying to avoid paying the fare due, the case will be processed for prosecution.

A penalty fare of double the business class one way fare from SIN to SYD could prove very costly indeed!
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Old Jul 10, 19, 4:13 pm
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Originally Posted by Chris1664 View Post

This isnít the case (in the UK at least). The very minimum you will have to pay is a Penalty Fare which is £20 or double the First Class single fare to the next station. Whatever is highest. Of course if you wished to continue your journey, youíd then have to purchase a separate ticket to your final destination. In many cases, if the inspector suspects you were trying to avoid paying the fare due, the case will be processed for prosecution.

A penalty fare of double the business class one way fare from SIN to SYD could prove very costly indeed!
if they decide to prosecute for not being able to show a valid ticket itís a potential criminal record, £1000 fine and or imprisonment. If itís a train from Euston to Manchester with next stop Warrington Bank Quay you wonít get much charge from £500.

I dont think this happened as there are inconsistencies with the seat number and food described but for chan Edís maybe cancellation of their BAEC membership or a demotion of tiers might prevent others from trying.
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Old Jul 10, 19, 4:17 pm
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Originally Posted by ahmetdouas View Post
Fraud? Are you serious?

What do you suggest the sanction to be then? I think you are seriously exaggerating, making it sound like a criminal offence! God forbid I sit in another empty seat if I don't like my assigned one and there is a better one empty because I did not pay for it, I am in trouble?

If the OP story person got away with it, good for them! The worst thing that should happen is they are sent back to their seats, it's up to crew to enforce this and that's that.
Hopefully, you are consistent and also believe people who take the bus without a ticket should face no more than having to back their ticket if and when they are caught, and someone who pickpockets your wallet should just return it to you if they are caught by the police? All three examples are equally about trying to take something you havenít paid for and know perfectly well is not rightfully yours.
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Old Jul 10, 19, 4:18 pm
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Originally Posted by ThatT1Feeling View Post
Somewhere between the position of "it's OK, let everyone sit where they want, irrespective of the class of service they've paid for" and "arrest every passenger who innocently sits in the wrong seat" is probably the right approach.
Whatís this crazy talk? This is FT. ;-)
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Old Jul 10, 19, 5:05 pm
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Originally Posted by ThatT1Feeling View Post
I was on a domestic last week where a couple clearly tried to sneak into CE and were send back to their proper seats by the SCCM. ... If they were asked to pay the fare difference, or repeat offenders charged with fraud, then it may be a different matter.
They will just say the seats look the same so they didn't see why anyone would mind.
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