For goodness sake, stop queuing!
Jun 25, 2019, 12:21 pm
#46
Join Date: Apr 2017
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One cause of unnecessary queuing (definitely not the only one) is simply that people arrive at the gate in plenty of time (as they are encouraged to do with scary warnings about being denied boarding if late, and by automated systems that announce final call far too early) then find there is insufficient seating. So as they are standing they may as well stand in a position ready to board. And unless they are the first person to do so, they will probably stand behind someone else. And now they are queuing, even if they had no intention of doing so.
Jun 25, 2019, 1:26 pm
#47
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IME, notwithstanding the moans on US airline fora, it still seems to me that the boarding process works somewhat better in US airports than European ones. Two things, it seems to me, make it different: usually, there is more gate space than in Europe. Secondly, the boarding process also tends to start earlier, which gives GAs a little more headroom to enforce boarding procedures.
I will add two more factors: gate agents in the USA have a less customer friendly, more brutal approach to their task. Whether that is good or bad is open to discussion, but if a gate agent wants people to clear out of the way this will happen. Also whereas BA services regularly have a quarter or even a third of their passengers with Silver status or above, and another large chunk in Club Europe, you are unlikely to get that sort of proportion in the USA, when many upgrades get cleared at the end of the process.
Jun 25, 2019, 1:36 pm
#48
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But where is that self-awareness/openness going to come from? People behave they way they do for a reason (or rather as a result of a complex map of conscious and unconscious reasons and processes). If you want them to behave differently, you need to change something in their environment or their cognitive mapping of the environment which is going to make them change. And, in our context, that can only come from the way you design the boarding process, both in its hard elements (infrastructure, etc...) and its soft elements (the announcements that you make, etc...)
Just wishing people to be different to what they are is rarely a particularly successful strategy, IME.
Just wishing people to be different to what they are is rarely a particularly successful strategy, IME.
Jun 25, 2019, 2:33 pm
#49
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 750
This is actually queuing to queue, which is mad.
Brits love to queue, and have all sorts of weird and imaginary hierarchies in place to make it suitably complex for their emotional needs. easyJet and Ryanair start this process when the aircraft is 100 miles from the airport, and no-one seems to complain. Detaching oneself from this process is quite liberating. Just turn up when the red FINAL CALL thing goes up, you'll be on swiftly, and at stage they will just have to find somewhere for any baggage. I appreciate it's not a good way of working as far as the ground agents are concerned. Nice is excellent, like Newcastle, in that you can sit in the lounge and watch it all play out whilst sipping coffee.
Brits love to queue, and have all sorts of weird and imaginary hierarchies in place to make it suitably complex for their emotional needs. easyJet and Ryanair start this process when the aircraft is 100 miles from the airport, and no-one seems to complain. Detaching oneself from this process is quite liberating. Just turn up when the red FINAL CALL thing goes up, you'll be on swiftly, and at stage they will just have to find somewhere for any baggage. I appreciate it's not a good way of working as far as the ground agents are concerned. Nice is excellent, like Newcastle, in that you can sit in the lounge and watch it all play out whilst sipping coffee.
Jun 25, 2019, 8:00 pm
#53
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I was in MXP (Malpensa) last year. Interesting system that Lufthansa used. They would pre-split the groups in to two zones. So those with priority boarding were allowed into a small holding area next to the door to the jetbridge and then the other groups were left in another area. It was a simple right/left kind of scenario before boarding even began. Ensured anyone in the priority group got on first. Not sure it's the most efficient always, but seemed to work well. Of course, it did benefit from their being suitable space
Jun 25, 2019, 8:06 pm
#54
Join Date: Jun 2005
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It is both the fear of losing the hand luggage to the hold and also people who fear that they will not have a place to put their own hand luggage though they are only carrying one piece. I think boarding EC starting from the back and be forceful with it is a good idea. Yes in CMB they all will jump up when the Gate is open and the business class passengers will also have to fight their way through to the Gate.
Some airlines like EVA hold a board that has the Zone on it and all have to queue in front of that. Zone 1 is the priority and business class and they mostly have no issues with it. Zone 2 is the Silver and PE and there you have everyone queuing up including Zone 3 and 4 too. That creates a lot of confusion and also stress but from what I have seen the Ground Staff are fairly strict with their boarding procedure.
I have also seen some Asian airlines where it is a free for all.
Some airlines like EVA hold a board that has the Zone on it and all have to queue in front of that. Zone 1 is the priority and business class and they mostly have no issues with it. Zone 2 is the Silver and PE and there you have everyone queuing up including Zone 3 and 4 too. That creates a lot of confusion and also stress but from what I have seen the Ground Staff are fairly strict with their boarding procedure.
I have also seen some Asian airlines where it is a free for all.
Jun 25, 2019, 9:44 pm
#55
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I was in MXP (Malpensa) last year. Interesting system that Lufthansa used. They would pre-split the groups in to two zones. So those with priority boarding were allowed into a small holding area next to the door to the jetbridge and then the other groups were left in another area. It was a simple right/left kind of scenario before boarding even began. Ensured anyone in the priority group got on first. Not sure it's the most efficient always, but seemed to work well. Of course, it did benefit from their being suitable space
Jun 25, 2019, 9:48 pm
#56
Join Date: Feb 2010
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It is both the fear of losing the hand luggage to the hold and also people who fear that they will not have a place to put their own hand luggage though they are only carrying one piece. I think boarding EC starting from the back and be forceful with it is a good idea. Yes in CMB they all will jump up when the Gate is open and the business class passengers will also have to fight their way through to the Gate.
Some airlines like EVA hold a board that has the Zone on it and all have to queue in front of that. Zone 1 is the priority and business class and they mostly have no issues with it. Zone 2 is the Silver and PE and there you have everyone queuing up including Zone 3 and 4 too. That creates a lot of confusion and also stress but from what I have seen the Ground Staff are fairly strict with their boarding procedure.
I have also seen some Asian airlines where it is a free for all.
Some airlines like EVA hold a board that has the Zone on it and all have to queue in front of that. Zone 1 is the priority and business class and they mostly have no issues with it. Zone 2 is the Silver and PE and there you have everyone queuing up including Zone 3 and 4 too. That creates a lot of confusion and also stress but from what I have seen the Ground Staff are fairly strict with their boarding procedure.
I have also seen some Asian airlines where it is a free for all.
Seen this in INTL airports too. Primary reason can be cultural upbringing, systems, mind sets etc.. It also the NEED to have "my carryon right over my head" need (security, access in flight etc. My last flight out of FRA there was a sort of a stampede, Business class was called up, I got up and there was a mini stampede around me . Fellow pushed me and all I could come up with was " relax we all will get there at the same time"!.,
Jun 25, 2019, 11:48 pm
#58
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I observe most answers pertain to the queues at boarding (probably because they are the most commonly experienced!) but for what it’s worth, I’m my experience, the blockade at check in was the most problematic,if only because in some cases it could lead to some people missing their check in deadline and being denied boarding, and also because the nature of check in gates means you can’t pass people queuing in front of you and go sideways as recommended by Swanhunter. You have to literally ask them to get out of the way to go forward which many less confident passengers will find very embarrassing to do.
in busy outstations with many flights to different london airports (and man etc in summer) such as NCE, AMS, AGP etc it can be a real and persistent issue.
in busy outstations with many flights to different london airports (and man etc in summer) such as NCE, AMS, AGP etc it can be a real and persistent issue.
Jun 26, 2019, 12:44 am
#59
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This was a huge deal with UA more so than AA a few years back, but happens in the US and the term is funny, but apt. That said with my home airport being SFO, I remember a flight to IAD on a Sunday morning being well over half GS and 1K for a full 757, so hard to avoid a pile up on the old queuing rules.
US airlines now have much more fine grained boarding grouping and take more than a half-hearted stab at enforcing this. CK first, then F, then status passengers etc etc. At outstations for BA in Europe no one cares and reverts to local custom. In Italy you don't queue, you scrum, and for those familiar with the layouts of departure areas in places like PSA it is a scrum. Pisses off the brits no end
US airlines now have much more fine grained boarding grouping and take more than a half-hearted stab at enforcing this. CK first, then F, then status passengers etc etc. At outstations for BA in Europe no one cares and reverts to local custom. In Italy you don't queue, you scrum, and for those familiar with the layouts of departure areas in places like PSA it is a scrum. Pisses off the brits no end
Jun 26, 2019, 7:14 am
#60
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You’re right that it’s madness, c-w-s, but unfortunately unless you’re in Club or better (or possibly WT+), boarding last is pretty much a guarantee not to find space for even a reasonably sized carry-on bag. So one is ultimately forced to participate in the madness, at least up to a point. Now if there were a way to stop the pre-queue queue from forming, that would solve the problem before it really gets going. But once a bit of a pre-queue builds up a critical mass, it’s very difficult to reign it in, and people get sucked into it!