SHT88T

I don’t see the economies in B737’s going to Gatwick for BA.

The 8200 at 197 seats and the Max 10 (aiming for certification) at 230 are perfect configs for Vueling to replace A320 and A321’s. I’ll be amazed if Boeing haven’t been squeezed on re-training costs.

Vueling’s newer A320CEO’s and/or A320NEO’s could be shifted to Gatwick or Heathrow for fleet replacement. That keeps BA as an all Airbus short haul fleet, removing virtually all of the training needs and the added complexity of an additional type.

fransknorge

No it is capable of much more than that. Westjet is/will operate Toronto to UK/Ireland, and Air Canada is planning the same.
https://mentourpilot.com/westjet-mor...r-the-737-max/

opus99

Either of the scenarios that have been addressed above could work. Both need the full suite of options to be exercised though and probably more.

but we should also be aware that IAG is also in talks with airbus on a narrowbody order as well of a similar size to that of the Boeing order.

so we really don’t know.

But, Boeing could take the 25 Max 10 and leave at that really for LGW. LGW is now a similar model to LCY, different entity, different crew and that seems to be the way IAG wants to keep it. It removes the flexibility that comes with similar fleet of LGW and LHR to be able to move capacity around.

I don’t know how many frames LGW operates but it can’t be that much, maybe 30-35 frames? So opportunity to expand with options

and then the remaining options can be used for vueling

but vueling will be the Guinea pig for max operations. With the 8200 coming next year and the max 10 not till 2024 or 25 really.

if the max operations are successful in vueling and management like the economics of the aircraft, they will expand it further

So interesting few years up at IAG

Confus

So have I. BAEF needs something to compete with the A321s Wizz has pushed into Gatwick, in terms of both capacity and cost efficiency.

oliver2002

My point was that the 'quiet' feel you experience in max/neo is because of the new GTF engines used in these, regardless or CFM/PW. Both A & B have contributed minimally on that front.

RR18wheeler

Slight technical point, the CFM LEAP engine on the A320neo is not a geared turbo fan. It is more of an optimisation of the jet engine using new technology and materials. It is still much quieter than the predecessor though.

stefan_nl

I still don't see the rationale within IAG to create a low-cost BA subsidiary at Gatwick. Why not do it fully under the Vueling brand? That would make more sense in the brand portfolio of IAG and where BA is positioned.

vectismanpaul

The subsidiary is meant to be low cost in terms of operating expenses. To the customer it looks the same as BA mainline in the same way as BA CityFlyer operates.
BA Euroflyer offers the same cabin services as BA Mainline. However staff contracts allow for the greater seasonality at Gatwick. Vueling has less brand presence than BA in London.
It also does not offer Club Europe which does well with premium leisure customers at Gatwick.
I am inclined to believe that the Max order will be for Vueling but happy to be incorrect.

oliver2002

Pilots are the main component of crew costs. The fact that BALPA said no thanks to Europflyer means that they cannot offer exactly the same as BA mainline. Curious if this will become go fly 2.0

KARFA

Although after initially saying no, I think BALPA folded in the end so I am not sure they are able to block Euroflyer conditions leaking across to mainline?

TedToToe

IAG are to hold an Extraordinary Shareholder meeting on 26th October to gain approval for the x50 737 Max order, and also x37 A320 NEO family aircraft. Interestingly, in Resolution 1, Vueling are specifically mentioned as the purchaser of all 50 Max aircraft. Although, the precise wording also allows IAG to place them with any member airline. Resolution 2, for the NEOs, is nonspecific but I imagine BA to be in line for at least some of them.

https://www.iairgroup.com/en/investo...eneral-meeting

gw76

CIHY told us earlier this year they would all end up at Vueling.
I personally think a big chunk will end up at Gatwick in that guise…

Waterhorse

Im not so convinced, it would be fratricide. IAG do not, unless they are stupid, want to attack one part of their business with another part. They restarted a BA SH presence at LGW, pushing Vueling into LGW would only rob business from a nascent BA operation. I think they will go to other parts of IAG but not as tools to damage the new BA op at LGW

vectismanpaul

I have seen some comments on twitter from usually reliable sources that the Max order is indeed destined for Vueling.
No certainty of course but it would make sense. Both BA and BA Euroflyer have been advertising for direct entry A320 first officers and in
Euroflyer's case direct entry A320 Captains for 2023 with no reference at all to the MAX. With first deliveries due in late 2023 this does point to Vueling being the recipient
airline. We shall see.

Schind

It's been brewing for months but it's being reported today that Boeing don't now expect certification for the MAX 10 until "late 2023 or early 2024". The problem is that a US law mandates that any aircraft certified after December 31st 2022 must have an EICAS system fitted and Boeing don't want this on the MAX due to the costs involved. They've even said they may scrap the MAX 7 and 10 if they're not allowed an extension. Some US politicians have announced they'll support Boeing in getting an extension so we'll have to wait and see what happens. It doesn't affect the 8 or 9 obviously so they'll go ahead as planned but, whichever airline they're for, the 10's aren't 100% nailed on right now.