Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Aug 2, 2019, 1:40 pm
#901
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
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Posts: 30,531
As someone very anxious and feeling sick with worry about my upcoming flights could I request that we stick to discussing strike dates and mitigation of consequences?
I am coming to this thread regularly to get ahead of any news but increasingly having to wade through bickering.
I am coming to this thread regularly to get ahead of any news but increasingly having to wade through bickering.
if you are anxious about the strike and such ‘side debates’ further your worries, I’d strongly recommend ignoring this thread for good and waiting for the new one to emerge in due time (ie when there is something to actually say) as looking at this thread will simply not provide what you are looking for.
Aug 2, 2019, 5:34 pm
#902
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
I am a customer, having paid a large amount of money for flights, caught in the middle of it all and have exercised my own opinion in this 'free forum'. Those opinions need not be curtailed as far as I am aware in terms of being sceptical about why some posters not apparently party to the dispute directly, advocate the position of bringing an airline to a halt and disrupting holiday travel plans of tens of thousands [of others] on a repeated daily basis.
I can assure you many of those who have supported the strike action are not, and have not, been involved in aviation in any professional capacity whatsoever, let alone being involved in the dispute in any way, and in fact they are going to be potentially adversely affected by it.
I'd say the motivations of many of those posters for supporting the potential strike are in fact a sense of justice and fairness. (Rather than something of self-interest.)
This isn't meant to underestimate the potential inconvenience for those who may be affected. It is merely a comment to say that people are not always motivated to post to support a certain side because of their involvement in the matter. Obviously, it will be very inconvenient for those who may be affected by the strike (even the potential/threatened strike may be very inconvenient for some) and hopefully the strike will be avoided.
Having said all that in a personal capacity...
--- Moderator hat on ---
Regardless of whose side one might be on, it is generally inadvisable to cast aspersions on people's motivation, as it might risk amounting to personal attacks if it goes further (that applies to both sides of the argument).
Everyone is of course absolutely welcome to hold whatever thoughts or opinions they might have, however, expression of such thoughts/opinions on FlyerTalk must be within the rules of the forum, which you can read here.
It's also probably a good time to review one's own assumptions, prejudices and biases about various aspects of life...
LTN Phobia
Moderator: BA forum
--- Moderator hat off ---
Last edited by LTN Phobia; Aug 2, 2019 at 7:53 pm
Aug 2, 2019, 6:58 pm
#903
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SJC/SFO & ORD
Programs: LT Gold/BA Executive Club/AS MP/Marriott
Posts: 1,646
Hopefully management and union(s) can figure something out.
Aug 2, 2019, 7:46 pm
#904
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NYC
Programs: BA Silver, UA 1K, DL Platinum
Posts: 696
I have a number of reasons to be anxious about travel over the period. I am a frequent flyer and I have contingencies and can cope but my 80 year mother will insist on worrying no matter what I tell her. There are not many visits left to see her grandchildren.
So we wait.
i understand that it is complex and nuanced but for customers it is objectively wretched. A plague on both their houses is hiw I feel right now.
So we wait.
i understand that it is complex and nuanced but for customers it is objectively wretched. A plague on both their houses is hiw I feel right now.
Aug 3, 2019, 12:19 am
#905
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,531
I'm of the opinion it certainly is not a "sense of justice and fairness" for the tens of thousands of people/families who have might have saved for years to take a (family) vacation or who must go see sick loved ones or who might be on their way for a job interview, etc.
That said I’m not in their head so I won’t ascribe thoughts or opinions and if I may say. I know one doesn’t comment mods post but I hope that I can be forgiven for underlying a very wise and eloquent reference to now being a time to rethink one’s underlying thoughts and presuppositions. There is a very obvious way to start:
i think this thread would benefit greatly if everyone spoke in their own name instead of pretending to speak on behalf of others who have presumably not given authority to do so. You condemn the strikers? Great, just don’t pretend everyone else impacted does. You think the strikers are right? Great, let’s not pretend that everyone shares your view. You think another poster is wrong? Argue with the idea, not the person and if you really must involve them, then don’t pretend you know their motivation or character unless you personally know them in real life and are freaking sure.
i for one hate people who speak in my name when I haven’t entrusted them with the right to do so, and chances are that there might be at least some people who have saved all year long for their family vacation, are on their way to support sick ones or are due to attend job interviews who would similarly prefer others who do not know them not to pretend that they are aware of what they find (un)fair or (un)just.
Aug 3, 2019, 2:15 am
#906
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SJC/SFO & ORD
Programs: LT Gold/BA Executive Club/AS MP/Marriott
Posts: 1,646
And yet, if you read any of the many studies on public attitudes towards social movement, you’ll find that your ‘certainty’ is completely wrong and that unless you want to make a case that somehow this is a very unique strike (would love to read it), it is extremely unlikely that those typically affected will be the ones blaming the strikers or finding their position unfair, just as typically, those who use the tube are among the most likely to find just cause in a tube workers’ right.
That said I’m not in their head so I won’t ascribe thoughts or opinions and if I may say. I know one doesn’t comment mods post but I hope that I can be forgiven for underlying a very wise and eloquent reference to now being a time to rethink one’s underlying thoughts and presuppositions. There is a very obvious way to start:
i think this thread would benefit greatly if everyone spoke in their own name instead of pretending to speak on behalf of others who have presumably not given authority to do so. You condemn the strikers? Great, just don’t pretend everyone else impacted does. You think the strikers are right? Great, let’s not pretend that everyone shares your view. You think another poster is wrong? Argue with the idea, not the person and if you really must involve them, then don’t pretend you know their motivation or character unless you personally know them in real life and are freaking sure.
i for one hate people who speak in my name when I haven’t entrusted them with the right to do so, and chances are that there might be at least some people who have saved all year long for their family vacation, are on their way to support sick ones or are due to attend job interviews who would similarly prefer others who do not know them not to pretend that they are aware of what they find (un)fair or (un)just.
1). I think its completely safe to assume that there will be many people who will be impacted (at whatever level). In fact, other websites with people (possibly travelers) have written as such.
2). I have never stated anywhere (here) that everyone shares my view - you are simply "putting words in my mouth" so-to-speak. In fact, if anything, I find your comments to be primarily a tu quoque argument.
3) Your comment of "many studies on public attitudes towards social movement" is rather irrelevant here because there isn't a study for this particular potential strike. Also, reading other websites, there are people who are blaming the (potential) strikers (which in essence proves your comment to be incorrect).
Anyway, I feel this is going to become a "circular argument" and probably most of the members aren't interested in our "discussion".
I'll leave it at that.
Regards.
Aug 3, 2019, 2:29 am
#907
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,531
I'm of the opinion it certainly is not a "sense of justice and fairness" for the tens of thousands of people/families who have might have saved for years to take a (family) vacation or who must go see sick loved ones or who might be on their way for a job interview, etc.
Aug 3, 2019, 3:39 am
#908
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,627
I happen to know the profession of a number of posters on this forum who supported the strike action.
I can assure you many of those who have supported the strike action are not, and have not, been involved in aviation in any professional capacity whatsoever, let alone being involved in the dispute in any way, and in fact they are going to be potentially adversely affected by it.
I'd say the motivations of many of those posters for supporting the potential strike are in fact a sense of justice and fairness. (Rather than something of self-interest.)
I can assure you many of those who have supported the strike action are not, and have not, been involved in aviation in any professional capacity whatsoever, let alone being involved in the dispute in any way, and in fact they are going to be potentially adversely affected by it.
I'd say the motivations of many of those posters for supporting the potential strike are in fact a sense of justice and fairness. (Rather than something of self-interest.)
I previously asked if anyone knew precise details of the sacrifices made by pilots circa 2009 and details of changes in their remuneration package since then. Without this information I don't see how anyone can offer an informed opinion of fairness and justice in this dispute.
Aug 3, 2019, 4:02 am
#909
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
Programs: BA GGL (for now) and Lifetime Gold, Marriott fan thanks to Bonvoy Moments
Posts: 5,115
So, if the people voicing support for the strike are not connected with the aviation industry (let alone BA), where do they get their informtion from that allows them to take a view on the justness or fairness of the dispute?
I previously asked if anyone knew precise details of the sacrifices made by pilots circa 2009 and details of changes in their remuneration package since then. Without this information I don't see how anyone can offer an informed opinion of fairness and justice in this dispute.
I previously asked if anyone knew precise details of the sacrifices made by pilots circa 2009 and details of changes in their remuneration package since then. Without this information I don't see how anyone can offer an informed opinion of fairness and justice in this dispute.
(Now some of the TfL strikes I have a very different view on as their complaints at times have seemed quite spurious and an attempt to blackmail the city - Bob Crow would have been in the Trump / BoJo / Corbyn / Piers Morgan section of my “list”
)
Aug 3, 2019, 4:46 am
#910
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
So, if the people voicing support for the strike are not connected with the aviation industry (let alone BA), where do they get their informtion from that allows them to take a view on the justness or fairness of the dispute?
I previously asked if anyone knew precise details of the sacrifices made by pilots circa 2009 and details of changes in their remuneration package since then. Without this information I don't see how anyone can offer an informed opinion of fairness and justice in this dispute.
I previously asked if anyone knew precise details of the sacrifices made by pilots circa 2009 and details of changes in their remuneration package since then. Without this information I don't see how anyone can offer an informed opinion of fairness and justice in this dispute.
Aug 3, 2019, 5:05 am
#911
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK.
Programs: SQ LPPS, A3 *G, BA Silver aiming for Bronze
Posts: 1,506
From a mate who is a captain on the A320 fleet: This has been brewing for five years. BA has failed to listen to the pilots throughout that time, previous promises have not been kept and more false promises have been made. In the same time frame they've watched service standards be cut and other employees have salaries and terms and conditions degraded too. They've also watched Walsh, Cruz and one or two more take obscene levels of money in pay and benefits while everyone else is denied everything and the service to passengers degraded and on that front he believes there is far more to come.
The pilots have apparently got to the end of their tether and now have no place to go but strike because talking has got them no where and at the top BA is intransigent and won't budge. He really doesn't want to strike, he loves nothing more than flying but he's beginning to hate BA and now only enjoys his job when the aircraft door is closed because the level of pettiness in all dealings on the ground is exhausting and demoralising. If a strike is called he will stop work and he just hopes people understand that BA have left the pilots with no other place to go unless they continue to put up and shut up. He's really sorry that it will disrupt plans for people but he says this has been coming for a long time and unfortunately people were always going to be disrupted no matter when it happens.
His advice it to book with any other airline for the remainder of the year.
The pilots have apparently got to the end of their tether and now have no place to go but strike because talking has got them no where and at the top BA is intransigent and won't budge. He really doesn't want to strike, he loves nothing more than flying but he's beginning to hate BA and now only enjoys his job when the aircraft door is closed because the level of pettiness in all dealings on the ground is exhausting and demoralising. If a strike is called he will stop work and he just hopes people understand that BA have left the pilots with no other place to go unless they continue to put up and shut up. He's really sorry that it will disrupt plans for people but he says this has been coming for a long time and unfortunately people were always going to be disrupted no matter when it happens.
His advice it to book with any other airline for the remainder of the year.
Aug 3, 2019, 5:17 am
#912
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,399
Some real food for thought there @ lhrpete
I have several BA sectors booked for September & beyond.
The profits may be rolling in, but there is undoubtedly something rotten in the state of industrial relations at BA.
I have several BA sectors booked for September & beyond.
The profits may be rolling in, but there is undoubtedly something rotten in the state of industrial relations at BA.
Last edited by subject2load; Aug 3, 2019 at 5:22 am
Aug 3, 2019, 5:21 am
#913
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 239
These days I fly long haul once a year - for the only vacation we have. It is possible I’ll lose days of my vacation or at least have the start of it disrupted in some way.
I’d rather they didn’t strike for obvious personal reasons but support their right to strike.
I’d rather they didn’t strike for obvious personal reasons but support their right to strike.
Aug 3, 2019, 5:30 am
#914
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 373
I and many other of my very frequent fellow business travellers are in full support of the BA pilots. People are very quick to complain on this and other forums about the downgrading of ground and inflight services by this highly profitable airline. Airlines are operating in cut throat environments, yes, but Walsh is driven by extreme greed and is not interested in staff or passengers. I would go as far as suggesting Walsh attended the Michael O'Leary school of airline operations.
To the pilots, ground staff and cabin crew of BA, you are supported by a lot of people. Good luck and let’s wait for Walsh and Cruz to start acting properly in the face of serious disruption.
To the pilots, ground staff and cabin crew of BA, you are supported by a lot of people. Good luck and let’s wait for Walsh and Cruz to start acting properly in the face of serious disruption.
Aug 3, 2019, 6:06 am
#915
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
Talking to an old buddy of mine, 1 of whose offspring is a junior F/O at BA, the junior ranks are absolutely incensed by the behaviour of BA, especially regarding the court case. Late last week BA finally got to understand the strength of feeling having been in denial for some time. BA finally realise a strike would be catastrophic for their operations at LHR and LGW, with a very high level of crews walking out. This is probably the reason BA has finally thought about negotiating. Time will tell.