Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Sep 19, 2019, 1:55 pm
#2326
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
I actually think if I was a shareholder I'd be happy right now - we are heading into Brexit with an uncertain economy and already Ryanair has announced a mass of job losses. If I were a shareholder, why would I want BA to by wasting money on well-paid pilots rather than making profit for my investment, especially coming into uncertain times? BA have hit down on those pilots hard that will make them think twice about striking again (not to mention caving would risk other staff striking again, many of which who probably actually could use more money because they are living close to poverty), and indeed they are free to leave and find a better workplace if they aren't happy with BA (there isn't one). Alex Cruz has done what Alex Cruz does best and acted in the best interests of shareholders and the company - at least in the short to medium term. He will be rewarded handsomely for it. You may question whether this is ethical or not, but if I was a shareholder I'd be smiling right now. The money is going into your pocket. And Alex is doing his job.
Sep 19, 2019, 2:23 pm
#2327
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 198
It's hard to know what BALPA were asking for (I assume it's not public?), but if the pilots are inspired by the American carriers that 100 million might seem like a wise investment. Especially if it also discourages other BA staff from jumping on the bandwagon. With a workforce this size, the money really adds up.
Sep 19, 2019, 3:12 pm
#2328
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
It's hard to know what BALPA were asking for (I assume it's not public?), but if the pilots are inspired by the American carriers that 100 million might seem like a wise investment. Especially if it also discourages other BA staff from jumping on the bandwagon. With a workforce this size, the money really adds up.
Sep 19, 2019, 3:59 pm
#2329
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: LHR/ATH
Programs: Amex Platinum, LH SEN (Gold), BA Bronze
Posts: 4,489
Fair is fair, at least he doesn't pretend to be something else, and financially BA are taking advantage of every opportunity they can get.
I may not agree with BOB, but no one is forcing me to fly BA so where possible I look at other options such as TK, UA, and LH.
I have to say the airline is well run at the moment financially. People complaining doesn't mean the company is losing money and compared to how the trains are run in the UK, then BA doesn't look that bad after all; at least BA can be cheap in some cases while not providing much service; which is what the passengers seem to want anyway.
So if BA are heading this way, do the pilots really expect to be treated luxuriously? I think the pilots are out of touch in the direction BA is heading and should not be surprised they are playing hardball with them. BA is not LH or AF, it's a completely different ballgame.
BA's position is probably this; if the pilots want to profit share, they should buy stocks from their salaries!
Sep 19, 2019, 4:56 pm
#2330
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
No, he is not costing the company 100,000,000 GBP, he is not the one going on strike!
Fair is fair, at least he doesn't pretend to be something else, and financially BA are taking advantage of every opportunity they can get.
I may not agree with BOB, but no one is forcing me to fly BA so where possible I look at other options such as TK, UA, and LH.
I have to say the airline is well run at the moment financially. People complaining doesn't mean the company is losing money and compared to how the trains are run in the UK, then BA doesn't look that bad after all; at least BA can be cheap in some cases while not providing much service; which is what the passengers seem to want anyway.
So if BA are heading this way, do the pilots really expect to be treated luxuriously? I think the pilots are out of touch in the direction BA is heading and should not be surprised they are playing hardball with them. BA is not LH or AF, it's a completely different ballgame.
BA's position is probably this; if the pilots want to profit share, they should buy stocks from their salaries!
Fair is fair, at least he doesn't pretend to be something else, and financially BA are taking advantage of every opportunity they can get.
I may not agree with BOB, but no one is forcing me to fly BA so where possible I look at other options such as TK, UA, and LH.
I have to say the airline is well run at the moment financially. People complaining doesn't mean the company is losing money and compared to how the trains are run in the UK, then BA doesn't look that bad after all; at least BA can be cheap in some cases while not providing much service; which is what the passengers seem to want anyway.
So if BA are heading this way, do the pilots really expect to be treated luxuriously? I think the pilots are out of touch in the direction BA is heading and should not be surprised they are playing hardball with them. BA is not LH or AF, it's a completely different ballgame.
BA's position is probably this; if the pilots want to profit share, they should buy stocks from their salaries!
Sep 19, 2019, 5:23 pm
#2331
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,746
If we add in the cost of the data breach fine, AC's actions ( or inactions) have cost the shareholders over a quarter billion pounds in lost profit straight off the bottom line, and out of their dividends. If I was a shareholder, I'd be furious at the incompetence of management.
Sep 20, 2019, 12:54 am
#2332
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: London
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 2,221
I’m not convinced about this £5m figure. Let’s say BALPA want a share in profits equivalent to an average of £10K per pilot per annum, which is possibly conservative based on their overall salary package. That’s a gap of £45m and, crucially, would open the floodgates of other employee groups requesting similar!
Sep 20, 2019, 1:36 am
#2334
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,618
I’m not convinced about this £5m figure. Let’s say BALPA want a share in profits equivalent to an average of £10K per pilot per annum, which is possibly conservative based on their overall salary package. That’s a gap of £45m and, crucially, would open the floodgates of other employee groups requesting similar!
So it could be BALPA want £100m, BA are offering £95m for all we know.
Sep 20, 2019, 1:50 am
#2335
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 198
Was it 7%? If so - this is exactly the kind of issue that Alex Cruz cannot cave into if he wants to service his 'real' customers (i.e. Shareholders). And the ROI for the strikes is going to pay itself back several times than caving into this demand. Yes, it sucks - but this is the world we live in.
I don't believe that the demands are simply an issue of 5 million difference - that is some PR machine from Balpa or another source trying to trivialise the demands. Also, we have to consider that Alex Cruz is only the face of a team of executives and board members and internal employees that know the implications of these demands far better than us, and the accounting. It seems laughable that we sit here on a forum thinking that they are arguing merely over 5 million here. The board would have fired Alex Cruz already if that was true.
I don't believe that the demands are simply an issue of 5 million difference - that is some PR machine from Balpa or another source trying to trivialise the demands. Also, we have to consider that Alex Cruz is only the face of a team of executives and board members and internal employees that know the implications of these demands far better than us, and the accounting. It seems laughable that we sit here on a forum thinking that they are arguing merely over 5 million here. The board would have fired Alex Cruz already if that was true.
Sep 20, 2019, 2:07 am
#2336
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
Was it 7%? If so - this is exactly the kind of issue that Alex Cruz cannot cave into if he wants to service his 'real' customers (i.e. Shareholders). And the ROI for the strikes is going to pay itself back several times than caving into this demand. Yes, it sucks - but this is the world we live in.
I don't believe that the demands are simply an issue of 5 million difference - that is some PR machine from Balpa or another source trying to trivialise the demands. Also, we have to consider that Alex Cruz is only the face of a team of executives and board members and internal employees that know the implications of these demands far better than us, and the accounting. It seems laughable that we sit here on a forum thinking that they are arguing merely over 5 million here. The board would have fired Alex Cruz already if that was true.
I don't believe that the demands are simply an issue of 5 million difference - that is some PR machine from Balpa or another source trying to trivialise the demands. Also, we have to consider that Alex Cruz is only the face of a team of executives and board members and internal employees that know the implications of these demands far better than us, and the accounting. It seems laughable that we sit here on a forum thinking that they are arguing merely over 5 million here. The board would have fired Alex Cruz already if that was true.
Sep 20, 2019, 2:10 am
#2337
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lincoln, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold, IHG Spire Ambassador, Hilton Diamond, Starbucks Gold
Posts: 1,267
Pure speculation, but would explain the apparent intransigence of the BA negotiating (or lack of).
Sep 20, 2019, 2:13 am
#2338
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
Perhaps the shareholders have given AC a war chest to permanently damage the relationship between pilots and BALPA, similar to what BA did to the cabin crew unions in 2010. "Here you go Alex, here's £300 million to put BALPA in their place once and for all!"
Pure speculation, but would explain the apparent intransigence of the BA negotiating (or lack of).
Pure speculation, but would explain the apparent intransigence of the BA negotiating (or lack of).
Sep 20, 2019, 2:18 am
#2339
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: ±38,000 feet
Programs: LH HON, BA GGL, AF Plat, EK Plat
Posts: 6,428
So far I see him as saving BA money - whilst this might not be the greatest long-term strategy, noone is going to remember or attribute great results to a CEO 10 years ago...
Sep 20, 2019, 2:28 am
#2340
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: London
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 2,221
Are you suggesting that Alex Cruz initiated the development and implementation of the Space Flex cabin in the A320NEO and not Airbus? I don’t think BA are the only ones using it!