Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Jun 23, 2019, 12:45 am
#166
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,464
For what it is worth, I have just rebooked 2 BA operated JFK-LHR sectors in August over onto AA. Not my preference for an overnight TATL flight, but I do not wish to waste time with BA should they not be able to run a their schedule.
Jun 23, 2019, 1:21 am
#167
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,821
Is there a cruise involved? In which case the risk of non BA strikes in Italy is probably greater anyway so I would ensure I had a night's buffer on the outbound. The Italians love to moan about their train system but it's actually the jewel in the crown of transport there, so if you get somewhere in Italy the day before, then you'll get to Genoa easily and efficiently. In that respect consider the great railway city of Bologna, which also has a very interesting city attached, which is definitely worth a visit in its own right.
Jun 23, 2019, 4:37 am
#168
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, IHG Platinum, HH Diamond, Hertz PC,
Posts: 1,986
Today’s Telegraph reports that Balpa has launched a legal action against BA for breach of contract, in addition to the ballot for strike. No details of what the breach of contract is for is stated in the article.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...-strike-chaos/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...-strike-chaos/
Jun 23, 2019, 7:44 am
#169
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,212
Gentle reminder on keeping the thread on-topic. Several posts driving the discussion off-piste have been removed accordingly.
Your assistance is much appreciated.
Prospero
Moderator: BA forum
Your assistance is much appreciated.
Prospero
Moderator: BA forum
Jun 26, 2019, 5:15 pm
#170
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Programs: BA Exec Club - Demoted to Bronze and re-promoted to Silver alongside AC Elite 50K (gold) in 2022
Posts: 393
How do crew survive? With sacrifices for a lot of them. I have friends (including my bestest bestest friend in the world - SH Purser) who drive long distances to Heathrow or commute in from Europe - perhaps a nicer life in Madrid or Copenhagen - but still a tough commute. I know of MF crew who sleep in cars, share hotel rooms, and having joined a crew member in Baltimore in their hotel room, bring all of their food with them from the UK so the allowances for a night stop in the US go to keeping the house going in the UK. A significant number of MF are not from London and the south east (loads of scouse, manc, geordie and scottish accents amongst the MF crew) so they're either commuting or making do in the south east which is not cheap by any means. Yes - I know that they choose to work for BA as MF (and can always leave) but that doesn't give BA license to take the p**s.
Last edited by Mikey Mike Mike; Jun 26, 2019 at 5:16 pm Reason: typo corrected to make sense
Jun 26, 2019, 5:46 pm
#171
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,833
Just one small note. Linate is closed over the summer, from 27 July to 27 Oct. 2019. Malpensa is much less convenient but the only Milan option during the closure. Bologna would be my preference and indeed, I am flying out of there in Sept after a visit to the mother-in-law in a small town near Genoa.
Jun 26, 2019, 7:59 pm
#172
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
How do crew survive? With sacrifices for a lot of them. I have friends (including my bestest bestest friend in the world - SH Purser) who drive long distances to Heathrow or commute in from Europe - perhaps a nicer life in Madrid or Copenhagen - but still a tough commute. I know of MF crew who sleep in cars, share hotel rooms, and having joined a crew member in Baltimore in their hotel room, bring all of their food with them from the UK so the allowances for a night stop in the US go to keeping the house going in the UK. A significant number of MF are not from London and the south east (loads of scouse, manc, geordie and scottish accents amongst the MF crew) so they're either commuting or making do in the south east which is not cheap by any means. Yes - I know that they choose to work for BA as MF (and can always leave) but that doesn't give BA license to take the p**s.
It becomes difficult to rule with a heavy hand after the true unemployment rate drops below 3 % and labour pool shrinks.
Jun 27, 2019, 6:16 am
#173
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London Town
Programs: BA Silver, AF Silver
Posts: 465
Surely one of the reasons why industrial relations will always be difficult for BA is that staff are essentially split into 2 camps - those with 20 years of service, hired on ridiculously generous terms and with more downtime than work time, and those hired more recently on conditions that are more in line with how the global aviation industry looks now. The unions played a major part over the years in ensuring the old guard benefited from pay and conditions that were generous, to say the least, and now they seem to be constantly stoking tensions because their new breed of members were hired on hopelessly different contracts.
The only solution is to pension off the last of the old guard so that the entire company are on similar contracts. I remember reading a few years ago about a British cabin crew member who lived in the US and somehow managed to hold down a job on an airline based out of London. Back in the good old days I'm sure this worked. But the industry has changed beyond all recognition since 2001, and for some it's time to get off the gravy train.
Unfortunately, being anything other than a pilot is destined to be a low-level, low-paid role with few perks in this new era where the low cost model of operation is now the norm. As safety continues to improve, the role of cabin crew becomes even more skewed towards onboard waiter/ess. They are frontloaded with skills and knowledge that many of them may go an entire career without ever using. It's increasingly hard to find arguments as to why these people warrant the kind of perks that cash-strapped employers have to cover, such as an extra night in Vegas, or a few days on a Caribbean beach. Sad to say, but it barely looks like an attractive way to see the world any more, and over time it seems destined to be a low-paid job option that will only appeal to people without a degree.
Do cabin crew deserve a return to the old days of higher pay, more paid time overseas, abundant free travel and so on? Sure, subject to the same criteria the rest of us live by: if their employers are doing well and the margins make it work.
The only solution is to pension off the last of the old guard so that the entire company are on similar contracts. I remember reading a few years ago about a British cabin crew member who lived in the US and somehow managed to hold down a job on an airline based out of London. Back in the good old days I'm sure this worked. But the industry has changed beyond all recognition since 2001, and for some it's time to get off the gravy train.
Unfortunately, being anything other than a pilot is destined to be a low-level, low-paid role with few perks in this new era where the low cost model of operation is now the norm. As safety continues to improve, the role of cabin crew becomes even more skewed towards onboard waiter/ess. They are frontloaded with skills and knowledge that many of them may go an entire career without ever using. It's increasingly hard to find arguments as to why these people warrant the kind of perks that cash-strapped employers have to cover, such as an extra night in Vegas, or a few days on a Caribbean beach. Sad to say, but it barely looks like an attractive way to see the world any more, and over time it seems destined to be a low-paid job option that will only appeal to people without a degree.
Do cabin crew deserve a return to the old days of higher pay, more paid time overseas, abundant free travel and so on? Sure, subject to the same criteria the rest of us live by: if their employers are doing well and the margins make it work.
Jun 27, 2019, 6:25 am
#174
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,065
Surely one of the reasons why industrial relations will always be difficult for BA is that staff are essentially split into 2 camps - those with 20 years of service, hired on ridiculously generous terms and with more downtime than work time, and those hired more recently on conditions that are more in line with how the global aviation industry looks now. The unions played a major part over the years in ensuring the old guard benefited from pay and conditions that were generous, to say the least, and now they seem to be constantly stoking tensions because their new breed of members were hired on hopelessly different contracts.
The only solution is to pension off the last of the old guard so that the entire company are on similar contracts. I remember reading a few years ago about a British cabin crew member who lived in the US and somehow managed to hold down a job on an airline based out of London. Back in the good old days I'm sure this worked. But the industry has changed beyond all recognition since 2001, and for some it's time to get off the gravy train.
Unfortunately, being anything other than a pilot is destined to be a low-level, low-paid role with few perks in this new era where the low cost model of operation is now the norm. As safety continues to improve, the role of cabin crew becomes even more skewed towards onboard waiter/ess. They are frontloaded with skills and knowledge that many of them may go an entire career without ever using. It's increasingly hard to find arguments as to why these people warrant the kind of perks that cash-strapped employers have to cover, such as an extra night in Vegas, or a few days on a Caribbean beach. Sad to say, but it barely looks like an attractive way to see the world any more, and over time it seems destined to be a low-paid job option that will only appeal to people without a degree.
Do cabin crew deserve a return to the old days of higher pay, more paid time overseas, abundant free travel and so on? Sure, subject to the same criteria the rest of us live by: if their employers are doing well and the margins make it work.
The only solution is to pension off the last of the old guard so that the entire company are on similar contracts. I remember reading a few years ago about a British cabin crew member who lived in the US and somehow managed to hold down a job on an airline based out of London. Back in the good old days I'm sure this worked. But the industry has changed beyond all recognition since 2001, and for some it's time to get off the gravy train.
Unfortunately, being anything other than a pilot is destined to be a low-level, low-paid role with few perks in this new era where the low cost model of operation is now the norm. As safety continues to improve, the role of cabin crew becomes even more skewed towards onboard waiter/ess. They are frontloaded with skills and knowledge that many of them may go an entire career without ever using. It's increasingly hard to find arguments as to why these people warrant the kind of perks that cash-strapped employers have to cover, such as an extra night in Vegas, or a few days on a Caribbean beach. Sad to say, but it barely looks like an attractive way to see the world any more, and over time it seems destined to be a low-paid job option that will only appeal to people without a degree.
Do cabin crew deserve a return to the old days of higher pay, more paid time overseas, abundant free travel and so on? Sure, subject to the same criteria the rest of us live by: if their employers are doing well and the margins make it work.
Jun 27, 2019, 6:38 am
#175
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Lemonia. Best Greek ever.
Posts: 2,274
Not every point of Kevlondon's various points is ignorant.
There is an awful trend in employment world wide, which is often called the chase to the bottom. Lower prices means employers want to pay less for everything. Unfortunately it applies to many Labour markets.
Personally, I have always said that BA massively overdid this in its MF contracts, but they did have to reduce their Legacy costs. They did over do it, though, because the TU, (T & G/Unite/BASSA) let them do it. BASSA did try to defend Legacy crew, with mixed success, (won some, lost some) but failed miserably with MF.
I have no idea how MF crew survive in the South East.
There is an awful trend in employment world wide, which is often called the chase to the bottom. Lower prices means employers want to pay less for everything. Unfortunately it applies to many Labour markets.
Personally, I have always said that BA massively overdid this in its MF contracts, but they did have to reduce their Legacy costs. They did over do it, though, because the TU, (T & G/Unite/BASSA) let them do it. BASSA did try to defend Legacy crew, with mixed success, (won some, lost some) but failed miserably with MF.
I have no idea how MF crew survive in the South East.
Jun 27, 2019, 6:46 am
#176
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,464
Furthermore, despite the protestation of legacy crews saying they are underpaid, I don't see them running for the exit to find a similar role at another airline with the same T&Cs - in fact it is the golden handcuffs that are keeping them at BA.
Jun 27, 2019, 6:55 am
#177
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London Stratford, E7
Programs: BAEC Gold! Thanks to FT
Posts: 3,380
Surely one of the reasons why industrial relations will always be difficult for BA is that staff are essentially split into 2 camps - those with 20 years of service, hired on ridiculously generous terms and with more downtime than work time, and those hired more recently on conditions that are more in line with how the global aviation industry looks now. The unions played a major part over the years in ensuring the old guard benefited from pay and conditions that were generous, to say the least, and now they seem to be constantly stoking tensions because their new breed of members were hired on hopelessly different contracts.
The only solution is to pension off the last of the old guard so that the entire company are on similar contracts. I remember reading a few years ago about a British cabin crew member who lived in the US and somehow managed to hold down a job on an airline based out of London. Back in the good old days I'm sure this worked. But the industry has changed beyond all recognition since 2001, and for some it's time to get off the gravy train.
Unfortunately, being anything other than a pilot is destined to be a low-level, low-paid role with few perks in this new era where the low cost model of operation is now the norm. As safety continues to improve, the role of cabin crew becomes even more skewed towards onboard waiter/ess. They are frontloaded with skills and knowledge that many of them may go an entire career without ever using. It's increasingly hard to find arguments as to why these people warrant the kind of perks that cash-strapped employers have to cover, such as an extra night in Vegas, or a few days on a Caribbean beach. Sad to say, but it barely looks like an attractive way to see the world any more, and over time it seems destined to be a low-paid job option that will only appeal to people without a degree.
Do cabin crew deserve a return to the old days of higher pay, more paid time overseas, abundant free travel and so on? Sure, subject to the same criteria the rest of us live by: if their employers are doing well and the margins make it work.
The only solution is to pension off the last of the old guard so that the entire company are on similar contracts. I remember reading a few years ago about a British cabin crew member who lived in the US and somehow managed to hold down a job on an airline based out of London. Back in the good old days I'm sure this worked. But the industry has changed beyond all recognition since 2001, and for some it's time to get off the gravy train.
Unfortunately, being anything other than a pilot is destined to be a low-level, low-paid role with few perks in this new era where the low cost model of operation is now the norm. As safety continues to improve, the role of cabin crew becomes even more skewed towards onboard waiter/ess. They are frontloaded with skills and knowledge that many of them may go an entire career without ever using. It's increasingly hard to find arguments as to why these people warrant the kind of perks that cash-strapped employers have to cover, such as an extra night in Vegas, or a few days on a Caribbean beach. Sad to say, but it barely looks like an attractive way to see the world any more, and over time it seems destined to be a low-paid job option that will only appeal to people without a degree.
Do cabin crew deserve a return to the old days of higher pay, more paid time overseas, abundant free travel and so on? Sure, subject to the same criteria the rest of us live by: if their employers are doing well and the margins make it work.
BA658 LHR - Zakynthos, diverted to Zagreb, 26 Jun
Crew are always there for our safety. They have to pass recurrent training to demonstrate their ongoing competence. Look at the Vegas incident when fire broke out on take off roll and the 777 that dropped short of the runway at LHR. It’s skilled professional crew in the cockpit and cabin that ensured the most severe injury was a broken bone and a few cuts and grazes. Both of these could have been multi fatality accidents.
Jun 28, 2019, 1:26 am
#178
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK/Australia
Programs: BAEC Silver, UA2MM, QF Platinum, VA Platinum., Volare Executive Club
Posts: 2,512
I imagine many others would also be contemplating cancelling/changing their BA flights. Might focus BA's mind a little...
Jun 28, 2019, 1:33 am
#179
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,821
Just one small note. Linate is closed over the summer, from 27 July to 27 Oct. 2019. Malpensa is much less convenient but the only Milan option during the closure. Bologna would be my preference and indeed, I am flying out of there in Sept after a visit to the mother-in-law in a small town near Genoa.