world tails--hated that much?
Mar 16, 2019, 4:15 pm
#31
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Regardless of whether it was a good idea for the designs to appear on the fins - and I know that there were some operational arguments as well as pure like/dislike - I am very sorry that all of the Utopia designs were then completely thrown out of the company's branding. There was a genuine point to be made about the company not being purely British or aimed only at British people, but being a world airline for everyone. And there is too little art used by big companies as part of their branding. I thought that there was no reason why the other designs should not continue to appear on things like signage and stationery to make that point, even if the aircraft were all changed to Chatham Dockyard. Indeed, as the current branding is still really a version of Utopia, there isn't any reason why they couldn't be brought back.
Nice designs, just out of place.
Mar 16, 2019, 4:46 pm
#33
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and LH, QR, and UA which don't... which suggests to me that hypotheses that including the flag on one's tail either 1)2) gets you a bigger share of the domestic market or 2) repels the international market will have a hard time being proven! Chances are that flag/no flag may not be that critical on that particular front and that this is about something else a bit more complex and indirect I guess...
Mar 16, 2019, 4:49 pm
#34
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ipswich
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I loved them. I actually liked most of the designs and I adored the concept.
To me, it was creative and innovative. No-one had ever done something like this and it reinforced my perception of BA's strong and confident brand.
How things have changed.
To me, it was creative and innovative. No-one had ever done something like this and it reinforced my perception of BA's strong and confident brand.
How things have changed.
Mar 16, 2019, 4:57 pm
#35
Join Date: Sep 2001
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I don’t think BA was ever supposed to only be aimed at British people. We still fly Air France, Emirates and American airlines even though they have their countries flag colours on the tail. BA were just trying to do something a bit different to stand out and it didn’t blend.
Nice designs, just out of place.
Mar 16, 2019, 5:16 pm
#36
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Yes. It also spoke of being British and both open to and engaged with the world. How things have changed, too.
Mar 16, 2019, 6:11 pm
#38
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Midcontinent
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My father worked for the airline since BOAC days. He quite liked the world tails, and defended them when I shared my opinion of them. But my view hasn't changed: they were messy and discordant and didn't really speak to anything. The fact they reserved Chatham for the Concorde shows even the people who introduced them understood this deep down.
Ultimately it's about the use of your brand - and like it or not, Britishness is tied up in BA's brand*. Whether it's the feeling of being home the expat gets the moment they step on board, or people from distant parts of the world who pick BA in part because of a belief that they will be better taken care of, or better understood, by a British airline** - this is one of the pillars of the airline's brand. And when you have a brand you can only either reinforce it or dilute it.
*I fully acknowledge there are plenty of customers and potential customers for whom all this is irrelevant. But there's a pretty sizeable number for whom it is not.
** Not a joke. I have had multiple people tell me this.
Ultimately it's about the use of your brand - and like it or not, Britishness is tied up in BA's brand*. Whether it's the feeling of being home the expat gets the moment they step on board, or people from distant parts of the world who pick BA in part because of a belief that they will be better taken care of, or better understood, by a British airline** - this is one of the pillars of the airline's brand. And when you have a brand you can only either reinforce it or dilute it.
*I fully acknowledge there are plenty of customers and potential customers for whom all this is irrelevant. But there's a pretty sizeable number for whom it is not.
** Not a joke. I have had multiple people tell me this.
Mar 16, 2019, 7:10 pm
#39
Join Date: Nov 2011
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I photographed all of the designs.
A few were brilliant, Benyhone (tartan), Chelsea Rose, Colum, all had a local resonance. But they went from Landor, look at the VERY positive PR the retrojet is getting, to launching the new livery on a B747 with African art on the fin. In branding terms, it was meaningless. Outside avgeeks and marketing pros, no one knew what the tailfins were, most were wholly abstract and impossible to tell the origin of north American Indian (Whale Rider) from Devon’s Blue Poole, which also had no visual clue it was from Devon.
They weren’t ahead of their time as no one has really copied this since, Frontier and Jetblue are nowhere near so abstact.
The retrojets are getting so much love as they have iconic and well remembered imagery. Red square, golden speedbird etc. Without looking it up, who can tell me their feelings on the iconic Rendezvous fin? Chinese writing on a BA tail sure as Hell didn’t say BA to the wider market. More telling was this was a Bob Ayling idea, the man Rod Eddington had to rebuild the airline from after he was forced out.
A few were brilliant, Benyhone (tartan), Chelsea Rose, Colum, all had a local resonance. But they went from Landor, look at the VERY positive PR the retrojet is getting, to launching the new livery on a B747 with African art on the fin. In branding terms, it was meaningless. Outside avgeeks and marketing pros, no one knew what the tailfins were, most were wholly abstract and impossible to tell the origin of north American Indian (Whale Rider) from Devon’s Blue Poole, which also had no visual clue it was from Devon.
They weren’t ahead of their time as no one has really copied this since, Frontier and Jetblue are nowhere near so abstact.
The retrojets are getting so much love as they have iconic and well remembered imagery. Red square, golden speedbird etc. Without looking it up, who can tell me their feelings on the iconic Rendezvous fin? Chinese writing on a BA tail sure as Hell didn’t say BA to the wider market. More telling was this was a Bob Ayling idea, the man Rod Eddington had to rebuild the airline from after he was forced out.
Mar 16, 2019, 7:13 pm
#40
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Ayling was a globalist in the Tony Blair mould. He seemed to miss the fact a load of Americans chose to fly with BA over their US competitors due to their strong branding (Landor).
Mar 16, 2019, 7:15 pm
#41
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
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To me, as a general onlooker, the concept itself was OK. I didn't mind some of them, while some others I found downright ugly to be honest (i.e. I simply did not like the patterns on some of them).
Last edited by LTN Phobia; Mar 16, 2019 at 9:43 pm
Mar 16, 2019, 9:35 pm
#42
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,595
Is it just me or does anyone else think the current Chatham Historic Dockyard/Utopia livery comes across as a stylised updated version of the Negus livery with the speedmarque (ribbon on the fuselage) a variation of speedbird and speedwing (BOAC/Negus and Landor)?
Last edited by 1Aturnleft; Mar 16, 2019 at 9:42 pm
Mar 16, 2019, 11:26 pm
#43
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Posts: 1,091
To be honest, I find the comparison odd: the stamps precisely have the Queen's head but not reference to the flag, the Chatham livery has got a segment of the flag but no reference to the Queen. To me, the two options are actually entirely different (but thanks for explaining as I was mistakenly thinking you meant a lack of reference to words!)
You are right that many tails do refer to national flags in however stylised a way - LX, OS, BA, AF, EK, AA, AZ, AC, LY, TP, etc. But then, equally many don't - LH, DL, UA, AM, SQ, CX, QR, OK, AY, LO, SN, EI, etc. I genuinely do not feel that people feel that QR is any less Qatari than EK is Emirati, that LH is any less German than BA is British, or that UA is any less American than AA, but admittedly that is only my gut feeling and I may well be wrong.
You are right that many tails do refer to national flags in however stylised a way - LX, OS, BA, AF, EK, AA, AZ, AC, LY, TP, etc. But then, equally many don't - LH, DL, UA, AM, SQ, CX, QR, OK, AY, LO, SN, EI, etc. I genuinely do not feel that people feel that QR is any less Qatari than EK is Emirati, that LH is any less German than BA is British, or that UA is any less American than AA, but admittedly that is only my gut feeling and I may well be wrong.
Mar 17, 2019, 2:58 am
#44
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Plenty of Hong Kong based companies used it and had Cathay wanted a flag tail design I’m sure they would have picked it (and would have then indeed had to change it after 1997 for the orchid design which by the way is the modified inspiration for the HK airlines tail fin).
That said I'm not the one suggesting that airlines should feature a flag on their tail so ‘should’ is probably not a question I’m best equiped to answer...
Mar 17, 2019, 3:48 am
#45
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Does anyone have a link to all the utopia designs in one place? I was a spotty teen at the time and didn't really have a grasp on this phase of BA's history. From the OP's photo, I think they look excellent, especially the calligraphy one.