BA serves drunk pax until comatose, refuses to remove him from emergency exit
Feb 4, 2019, 11:29 pm
#16
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Edinburgh
Programs: BA Gold, HHonors Gold, Priority Pass
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I am very liberal about alcohol consumption both in the lounges and in the air and also with people falling asleep on my shoulder! Happens quite a lot.
As long as he wasn't sick on me or bled on me I wouldn't be too bothered. If you are quietly getting drunk and not affecting anyone else's enjoyable go for it!
As long as he wasn't sick on me or bled on me I wouldn't be too bothered. If you are quietly getting drunk and not affecting anyone else's enjoyable go for it!
Feb 4, 2019, 11:29 pm
#17
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
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I asked the CSM for a word, recounting what had occurred and pointed to the old boy as he staggered off, and told her I was very concerned that they'd landed with him in the emergency seat. She was completely dismissive, and said it didn't matter as he was not seated by the window.
I would have moved on if this if she's taken it to heart, but clearly she didn't care one bit, so I really think I ought to take this further. BAA or CAA?
I would have moved on if this if she's taken it to heart, but clearly she didn't care one bit, so I really think I ought to take this further. BAA or CAA?
Feb 4, 2019, 11:54 pm
#18
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,166
It’s one thing for the crew to keep serving someone who is that drunk alcohol - naive, a bit careless.
It’s quite another for the crew to leave a very old man (query - was he really fit for the exit row even sober?!) in the emergency exit row if he was so drunk he could not stay awake. It seems pretty obvious he would have been a hindrance to a sub-90 second evacauation, or whatever the target is these days.
Pretty surprised at the crew’s response to this, especially when it was raised. For all its silly faults, I do fly BA in part because they have what I perceive to be an impeccable record on safety - stories like this don’t exactly align with that record (or perception). Hmmm...
It’s quite another for the crew to leave a very old man (query - was he really fit for the exit row even sober?!) in the emergency exit row if he was so drunk he could not stay awake. It seems pretty obvious he would have been a hindrance to a sub-90 second evacauation, or whatever the target is these days.
Pretty surprised at the crew’s response to this, especially when it was raised. For all its silly faults, I do fly BA in part because they have what I perceive to be an impeccable record on safety - stories like this don’t exactly align with that record (or perception). Hmmm...
Feb 5, 2019, 12:03 am
#19
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Not good, but I can't see any point taking it up.
Ranks will close at BA and the crew/CSD involved will have a collective onset of amnesia. Unless you have other witnesses lined up it will be your word and theirs.
Ranks will close at BA and the crew/CSD involved will have a collective onset of amnesia. Unless you have other witnesses lined up it will be your word and theirs.
Feb 5, 2019, 12:07 am
#20
Community Director
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Location: Norwich, UK
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Disembarking, I asked the CSM for a word, recounting what had occurred and pointed to the old boy as he staggered off, and told her I was very concerned that they'd landed with him in the emergency seat. She was completely dismissive, and said it didn't matter as he was not seated by the window.
Maybe she thought trying to cover for her colleagues would make it go away, that somehow the OP would be convinced by the answer. It ought to have been obvious from the knowledge shown here, and the preciseness of the post, that that wasn’t at all a sensible conclusion.
I agree with those who say the CAA is the best route here - the OP has effectively already raised this with BA on the day and got no-where. I have my doubts any simple escalation will get anywhere - the crew will have got their account aligned just in case as soon as the CSM was alerted.
Feb 5, 2019, 12:12 am
#21
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
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Posts: 719
If you genuinely feel that a safe evacuation in the event of an emergency landing would have been compromised, you should report it to the CAA. You have every right to question the CSD's judgement on this. A witness would help- I would have had a quiet word and exchange details with the person seated next to him who told him off for leaning against them. Then you would have a witness.
Feb 5, 2019, 12:35 am
#22
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,771
I hate twitter... but if I were you and wanted this to be looked at, I’d post the story calmly and objectively on BA’s twitter.
Feb 5, 2019, 12:43 am
#23
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: West Sussex, UK
Programs: BAEC, Silver
Posts: 148
I’d go to the CAA if I were you.
It would have been interesting to see what the Captain would have said, as ultimately he is responsible for every sole on that aircraft, and from experience, they quite understandably take that very seriously.
The crew are there primarily for the safety of the aircraft and it’s passengers, and they’ve disregarded safety by allowing a non-able bodied passenger to sit in an emergency exit row.
If the aircraft had to be evacuated, he would have definitely impeded the evacuation.
Its illegal to be drunk onboard an aircraft. There’s being drunk, then there’s being disruptive. He obviously wasn’t being overly disruptive, but the crew definitely should have stopped serving alcohol much earlier on - so another “misshap” by the crew.
How much of this was situation was the CSM aware of? I’d be surprised if a CSM was aware and happy that a passenger was in that state; and continually being supplied alcohol.
It would have been interesting to see what the Captain would have said, as ultimately he is responsible for every sole on that aircraft, and from experience, they quite understandably take that very seriously.
The crew are there primarily for the safety of the aircraft and it’s passengers, and they’ve disregarded safety by allowing a non-able bodied passenger to sit in an emergency exit row.
If the aircraft had to be evacuated, he would have definitely impeded the evacuation.
Its illegal to be drunk onboard an aircraft. There’s being drunk, then there’s being disruptive. He obviously wasn’t being overly disruptive, but the crew definitely should have stopped serving alcohol much earlier on - so another “misshap” by the crew.
How much of this was situation was the CSM aware of? I’d be surprised if a CSM was aware and happy that a passenger was in that state; and continually being supplied alcohol.
Feb 5, 2019, 1:05 am
#24
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
The crew member will say they didn't think there was an issue. The CSM and Captain will back them.
They will all say that the passenger left the flight unaided and was therefore capable of operating independently.
There will be no record of any incidents in the terminal and the passenger left the airport normally.
Security, Police or assistance were not required at any point. Life on earth will continue.
What are you expecting to happen?
As for the rest of the post....you speak with great authority for someone who was not there
Feb 5, 2019, 2:01 am
#25
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Plymouth, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,159
I would raise the issue with BA safety department and copy the letter to the CAA.
There are a lot of people saying "live and let live". That's all very well until there is an incident that needs the exit row passengers to assist the crew to evacuate. Then this man would potentially be putting yours and ours lives at risk. All exit row passengers should be fit enough to assist at any stage of the flight especially take-ff and landing.
IMO the crew should have stopped serving his drinks as soon as they realised he was drunk. In fact, that goes for anyone, not just exit row passengers, but especially exit row passengers. The CSM should have acknowledged your concerns and not just dismissed them.
I know it is difficult to raise these kinds of concerns at the time but if we want to increase our chances of getting out of a crash then we really don't want drunk and semi-comatose people blocking up the exits.
There are a lot of people saying "live and let live". That's all very well until there is an incident that needs the exit row passengers to assist the crew to evacuate. Then this man would potentially be putting yours and ours lives at risk. All exit row passengers should be fit enough to assist at any stage of the flight especially take-ff and landing.
IMO the crew should have stopped serving his drinks as soon as they realised he was drunk. In fact, that goes for anyone, not just exit row passengers, but especially exit row passengers. The CSM should have acknowledged your concerns and not just dismissed them.
I know it is difficult to raise these kinds of concerns at the time but if we want to increase our chances of getting out of a crash then we really don't want drunk and semi-comatose people blocking up the exits.
Feb 5, 2019, 2:42 am
#26
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,797
Personally I would just drop it.
Youve raised it to the CC and then the CSD, in effect you are questioning their judgement, any investigation will ask them and they will recall that they woke the passenger prior to landing who confirmed (allbeit their travel partner confirmed on their behalf) of their fitness to stay in the seat.
It is very unlikely to result in any action from BA or the CAA unless you have any further evidence to refute CC’s actions as being appropriate.
I personallg would have taised thr matter sooner, particularly if he was comatosed following a head injury irrespective of the cause you may assume, he may actually need medical attention.
Youve raised it to the CC and then the CSD, in effect you are questioning their judgement, any investigation will ask them and they will recall that they woke the passenger prior to landing who confirmed (allbeit their travel partner confirmed on their behalf) of their fitness to stay in the seat.
It is very unlikely to result in any action from BA or the CAA unless you have any further evidence to refute CC’s actions as being appropriate.
I personallg would have taised thr matter sooner, particularly if he was comatosed following a head injury irrespective of the cause you may assume, he may actually need medical attention.
Feb 5, 2019, 3:08 am
#27
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,281
The crew member will say they didn't think there was an issue. The CSM and Captain will back them.
They will all say that the passenger left the flight unaided and was therefore capable of operating independently.
There will be no record of any incidents in the terminal and the passenger left the airport normally.
Security, Police or assistance were not required at any point. Life on earth will continue.
They will all say that the passenger left the flight unaided and was therefore capable of operating independently.
There will be no record of any incidents in the terminal and the passenger left the airport normally.
Security, Police or assistance were not required at any point. Life on earth will continue.
In reality, the staff look the other way to keep the operation moving swiftly. This isn't considered an area for strict compliance, and BA will bat it all away.
Feb 5, 2019, 3:30 am
#28
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
I would raise the issue with BA safety department and copy the letter to the CAA.
There are a lot of people saying "live and let live". That's all very well until there is an incident that needs the exit row passengers to assist the crew to evacuate. Then this man would potentially be putting yours and ours lives at risk. All exit row passengers should be fit enough to assist at any stage of the flight especially take-ff and landing.
IMO the crew should have stopped serving his drinks as soon as they realised he was drunk. In fact, that goes for anyone, not just exit row passengers, but especially exit row passengers. The CSM should have acknowledged your concerns and not just dismissed them.
I know it is difficult to raise these kinds of concerns at the time but if we want to increase our chances of getting out of a crash then we really don't want drunk and semi-comatose people blocking up the exits.
There are a lot of people saying "live and let live". That's all very well until there is an incident that needs the exit row passengers to assist the crew to evacuate. Then this man would potentially be putting yours and ours lives at risk. All exit row passengers should be fit enough to assist at any stage of the flight especially take-ff and landing.
IMO the crew should have stopped serving his drinks as soon as they realised he was drunk. In fact, that goes for anyone, not just exit row passengers, but especially exit row passengers. The CSM should have acknowledged your concerns and not just dismissed them.
I know it is difficult to raise these kinds of concerns at the time but if we want to increase our chances of getting out of a crash then we really don't want drunk and semi-comatose people blocking up the exits.
If there are serious safety concerns the only way to address such things is (as you say) at the time, during the flight, if necessary escalating up to and including the commander, as others have noted. A quiet word with the CSM at the end really doesn't achieve much, the OP got fobbed off, and the incident is now over and everyone has gone their separate ways. It isn't live and let live, just that I'm not sure what the CAA or BA will be expected to say about an event no-one will recall.
Feb 5, 2019, 3:46 am
#29
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I don't know about the copy to the CAA, but if this is raised with BA's safety department, from previous experience of mine there is a good chance that it will be heeded. When I raised a cabin safety issue with BA (which was of a generic kind rather than an incident on a specific flight) I got a impressively considered and detailed response from the head of the department, which touched on the many difficult policy and practical issues that pulled in different directions on that, showing that BA was aware of the problem but also of the human factors limitations of what could reasonably be done in relation to it. It would not have satisfied a "hang 'em and flog 'em" complainant, but I thought that it was a reassuring insight into the real work behind BA's safety culture.
Feb 5, 2019, 5:11 am
#30
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Glasgow, UK
Programs: Seigneur des Tarifs Utils First Class Mucci with Honours :) - BA GGL / CCR
Posts: 1,551
Thankfully I have never opened one in a real emergency only at a training roadshow but it is very very heavy. The term able bodied and able to open the door in an emergency is a bit loose.