I actually like CW - am I crazy?
Jan 12, 2019, 9:24 pm
#31
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York NY
Programs: BA Gold, AA Plt,
Posts: 7
I, too, must agree with OP. I’ve flown business on every OW carrier, except S7. I mostly fly NYC-LON and I go out of my way to fly BA, specifically the 747 out of JFK. For me, the CW seat is the most comfortable. Best for sleep and lounging. I like AA’s 77W and I just came back from BKK on QR in their new QSuite and a trip from EWR to HKG on CX’s A350. All very nice but I still find BA’s seat to be more comfortable- not as spacious for sure but more comfortable. I should note that I usually take a seat on the UD, so it’s a little non-typical..... I would choose BA’s CW over any of them.
Jan 12, 2019, 10:02 pm
#32
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dubai
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 396
I agree, that if you get a window CW seat, then it is amazing for sleep. I prefer it to any other J product for sleep and also to BA F for sleep. I was flying a route a few years ago 1-2 times a month that was more often than not cheaper in F than CW, either one way or both. I was disappointed when the way back (overnight) was in F, and vice versa for the outbound day flight. It was usually the exact opposite, unfortunately.
I feel that on this forum, you either have Frequent BA flyers who have no issue getting window seats due to status or people who are extremely disappointed after not being able to sleep in CW aisle or middle seats, for reasons of lying right next to a stranger or having their legs kicked by people climbing over them. The latter will have flown on many other J products where this doesn't happen and immediately be disappointed in CW.
I will be sad when the new seat comes in as I fall into the frequent flyer category (although I am brown for the first time in 7 years, but will be gold again soon) so can always get a window seat but overall I think the new seat will please more people than it will upset, and in turn gain new loyal customers in the process whilst not really losing any. Makes business sense to me.
I feel that on this forum, you either have Frequent BA flyers who have no issue getting window seats due to status or people who are extremely disappointed after not being able to sleep in CW aisle or middle seats, for reasons of lying right next to a stranger or having their legs kicked by people climbing over them. The latter will have flown on many other J products where this doesn't happen and immediately be disappointed in CW.
I will be sad when the new seat comes in as I fall into the frequent flyer category (although I am brown for the first time in 7 years, but will be gold again soon) so can always get a window seat but overall I think the new seat will please more people than it will upset, and in turn gain new loyal customers in the process whilst not really losing any. Makes business sense to me.
Jan 12, 2019, 10:39 pm
#33
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bombay
Programs: EC Blue, EB Silver, FB Gold
Posts: 551
Great post and good breakdown of how you think CW fares against the competition.
As with most things in life, it boils down to personal preference. I’ve always slept well in CW, from my first flight in 1988 via the cradle seat to the two versions of the flatbed. The very best sleep I ever had was in CX’ old cradle seat when I got a full 8 hours. Worst sleep was LH’s angled flats when I woke up with back pain. In my opinion those are the only business class seats I’ve tried which were less comfortable than economy.
Airlines have to find a compromise between space, comfort, service etc. In an ideal world, it would be flat beds with direct aisle access with a companion seat. Vintage wines, gourmet food, great crew to passenger ratios, lounges with quality catering, massage etc. However, that would push the price up to compensate for the extra cost and loss of revenue. It’s also about not cannibalising F.
CW focuses on the ability to sleep, whereas for instance TK and SQ seem to focus on the inflight service. I love how QF showcase Aussie wine and AF the wonders of French cuisine. I wish these things could be combined into one, but not if that would turn business into first in terms of price.
I’m a guy who can sleep anywhere, including directly on tiles and parquet floors, and I’m 175/60. I’d be happy with a cradle seat, but prefer a flat bed. But my biggest pleasure of flying upfront is to enjoy the pampering of a great crew, nice wine and good food. Therefore I rank airlines that focus on those factors higher than BA, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad product.
As with most things in life, it boils down to personal preference. I’ve always slept well in CW, from my first flight in 1988 via the cradle seat to the two versions of the flatbed. The very best sleep I ever had was in CX’ old cradle seat when I got a full 8 hours. Worst sleep was LH’s angled flats when I woke up with back pain. In my opinion those are the only business class seats I’ve tried which were less comfortable than economy.
Airlines have to find a compromise between space, comfort, service etc. In an ideal world, it would be flat beds with direct aisle access with a companion seat. Vintage wines, gourmet food, great crew to passenger ratios, lounges with quality catering, massage etc. However, that would push the price up to compensate for the extra cost and loss of revenue. It’s also about not cannibalising F.
CW focuses on the ability to sleep, whereas for instance TK and SQ seem to focus on the inflight service. I love how QF showcase Aussie wine and AF the wonders of French cuisine. I wish these things could be combined into one, but not if that would turn business into first in terms of price.
I’m a guy who can sleep anywhere, including directly on tiles and parquet floors, and I’m 175/60. I’d be happy with a cradle seat, but prefer a flat bed. But my biggest pleasure of flying upfront is to enjoy the pampering of a great crew, nice wine and good food. Therefore I rank airlines that focus on those factors higher than BA, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad product.
Jan 12, 2019, 11:39 pm
#35
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
I
I feel that on this forum, you either have Frequent BA flyers who have no issue getting window seats due to status or people who are extremely disappointed after not being able to sleep in CW aisle or middle seats, for reasons of lying right next to a stranger or having their legs kicked by people climbing over them. The latter will have flown on many other J products where this doesn't happen and immediately be disappointed in CW.
I feel that on this forum, you either have Frequent BA flyers who have no issue getting window seats due to status or people who are extremely disappointed after not being able to sleep in CW aisle or middle seats, for reasons of lying right next to a stranger or having their legs kicked by people climbing over them. The latter will have flown on many other J products where this doesn't happen and immediately be disappointed in CW.
I’m a guy who can sleep anywhere, including directly on tiles and parquet floors, and I’m 175/60. I’d be happy with a cradle seat, but prefer a flat bed. But my biggest pleasure of flying upfront is to enjoy the pampering of a great crew, nice wine and good food. Therefore I rank airlines that focus on those factors higher than BA, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad product.
Most things in life are a matter of opinion and I certainly don't believe the OP is crazy. If the bed is important then I can see why the CW window seat works.
Personally like RoyalSwazi I can sleep anywhere so I look more at the end to end proposition. Sadly my irregular forays to CW really remind me that going East (which is what I do) there are airlines where the ride to airport, lounges, food, cleanliness, direct aisle access, IFE etc are more to my preference.
That means that BAEC is my main focus as a good programme where you can maintain OneWorld status without actually flying BA and whilst using EK, QR, Cathay, Qantas etc.
But as I say, each to their own.
Jan 13, 2019, 12:52 am
#36
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Vale of Glamorgan
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 2,991
Many on this forum seem to love QR - and you certainly can't beat them on price - but I find the service intrusive and obsequious and I end up wishing, as I remove my noise-cancelling headphones for the fourth time in ten minutes, that they would just bloody leave me in peace.
Jan 13, 2019, 1:43 am
#37
Join Date: Feb 2014
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 263
But CW is very dependent on which seat you get if I can get a window seat with aisle access on A380 UD or 747 UD then I am very happy indeed.
But the food and the service on BA exceeds most other carriers I know. I frequently find the AA food on LAX-LHR to be inedible, and the BA food is always pleasant and enjoyable - it doesn't try to be fancy, but then it can't fail either!!
But the food and the service on BA exceeds most other carriers I know. I frequently find the AA food on LAX-LHR to be inedible, and the BA food is always pleasant and enjoyable - it doesn't try to be fancy, but then it can't fail either!!
Jan 13, 2019, 2:29 am
#38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Balham - Gateway to The South
Programs: BA Bronze
Posts: 2,020
I can only add this:
If you do not have much ‘padding’ then the AA seat on the 77W is cruel and unusual punishment, I haven’t been that uncomfortable since my Mum made me sit still in the cinema.
Once asleep I stay asleep - so an UD aisle seat is perfect for me (MrD is a light sleeper so he has the window/my short legs are not the best at doing the CW Hurdle) add a little turbulence and I’m being rocked in a cradle and sleeping like a baby. Plenty of padding + White Company bedding makes for a great sleep.
If you do not have much ‘padding’ then the AA seat on the 77W is cruel and unusual punishment, I haven’t been that uncomfortable since my Mum made me sit still in the cinema.
Once asleep I stay asleep - so an UD aisle seat is perfect for me (MrD is a light sleeper so he has the window/my short legs are not the best at doing the CW Hurdle) add a little turbulence and I’m being rocked in a cradle and sleeping like a baby. Plenty of padding + White Company bedding makes for a great sleep.
Jan 13, 2019, 3:04 am
#39
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: coastal Croatia
Programs: BAEC Gold, M&M Senator
Posts: 2,181
OP, thanks for a nice overview of oneworld seats.
Transatlantic I like CW eastbound for sleeping as others have said, especially windows on the 747 & A380 UD. I HATE footwells (my worst flights have been on Swiss [the throne seat] and the DL 767 and I didn't much care for the AY330).
My favorite seat is the AA 777W and their 772 isn't bad, either. IB is also good. So it looks like I agree with rfarlz for oneworld (although for westbound I prefer IB to BA).
Transatlantic I like CW eastbound for sleeping as others have said, especially windows on the 747 & A380 UD. I HATE footwells (my worst flights have been on Swiss [the throne seat] and the DL 767 and I didn't much care for the AY330).
My favorite seat is the AA 777W and their 772 isn't bad, either. IB is also good. So it looks like I agree with rfarlz for oneworld (although for westbound I prefer IB to BA).
Jan 13, 2019, 3:10 am
#40
Join Date: Oct 2005
Programs: BA GGL & GfL, AA LTP, Marriott (sigh) Ambassador, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,237
generally agree with the initial analysis. and while i do find i sleep best on a rear-facing CW seat compared to anything else--i loathe everything else about the seat including space and privacy--which can be resolved easily with an upper deck "rear bulkhead" seat which leaves you with plenty of bin and bin-surface space and no need to step over anyone!
Jan 13, 2019, 3:28 am
#41
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Roswell, GA
Programs: AA EXP 2.8m,Lifetime PLT, Hilton Diamond, IHG PlLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 3,191
I sleep very well in CW, maybe its the long haul I have already done to get to LHR,
The thing CW lacks is storage space.. just not enough, and not in the best place when you recline your seat to relax/sleep
The thing CW lacks is storage space.. just not enough, and not in the best place when you recline your seat to relax/sleep
Jan 13, 2019, 3:49 am
#42
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,212
Welcome to FlyerTalk, rfarlz
I also agree with much of your thoughtful analysis - always good to read an objective assessment.
Being based in London, I appreciate the choices available to me and with oneworld these are broad and generally of a high standard. I am happy to book myself in all oneworld carriers out of London, although I tend to avoid AA's A330 services.
I find the CW seat very comfortable in all positions. Like all business class seats its not absolutely perfect but it is relatively unique in that there are small things you can do to overcome its inadequacies. For example, with the introduction of the White Company bedding I can create a makeshift counter by wedging the bedding container between the seat and cabin wall and use this to place my spectacles and water bottle as I set up the bed. I have come so accustomed to doing this now that on the A380 I have actually changed my seat preference from upper deck window to main deck window to take advantage of the extra ceiling height above the seat.
For me though, there is nothing that eclipses the environment of the 747 upper deck - the combination of space, quality of light, and intimacy is without parallel
I also agree with much of your thoughtful analysis - always good to read an objective assessment.
Being based in London, I appreciate the choices available to me and with oneworld these are broad and generally of a high standard. I am happy to book myself in all oneworld carriers out of London, although I tend to avoid AA's A330 services.
I find the CW seat very comfortable in all positions. Like all business class seats its not absolutely perfect but it is relatively unique in that there are small things you can do to overcome its inadequacies. For example, with the introduction of the White Company bedding I can create a makeshift counter by wedging the bedding container between the seat and cabin wall and use this to place my spectacles and water bottle as I set up the bed. I have come so accustomed to doing this now that on the A380 I have actually changed my seat preference from upper deck window to main deck window to take advantage of the extra ceiling height above the seat.
For me though, there is nothing that eclipses the environment of the 747 upper deck - the combination of space, quality of light, and intimacy is without parallel
Jan 13, 2019, 10:07 am
#43
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: BAEC GfL
Posts: 336
I also agree that CW is very good for sleeping, especially as being 6'2" my feet are not constrained in the foot coffins of other One World airlines, even on the 3 class 777 YMM* series I can manage a good 8 hours sleep on the way to/from Buenos Aires, the new White Company bedding also has added to the comfort levels. Also agree the 747 upper deck takes a lot of beating, will be missed.
Just hope the new A350 CW does not introduce foot coffins
Just hope the new A350 CW does not introduce foot coffins
Jan 13, 2019, 10:39 am
#44
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: East Coast, USA
Programs: BAEC, Etihad Guest, trying to figure out Skywards
Posts: 21
Doesn't that look inviting? I nicked the extra pillow from an empty seat!