BA ticket, S7 flight: no airside transit in Berlin
Jan 5, 2019, 4:44 pm
#1
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BA ticket, S7 flight: no airside transit in Berlin
I flew from Moscow (DME) to Boston via Berlin (TXL) and LHR on Jan/3. The ticket was sold as BA (125xxx) but the 1st segment was on S7 airlines (OneWorld member and BA code-share partner). When I got to Berlin, apparently to the low-cost terminal C, I was surprised to see the passport control the first thing without any alternative of a bus to do air-side transit. Border police agents spoke zero English. Then I had to cross passport control again when I reached the BA gate in the A terminal.
There was no notice about that in my ticket purchased through priceline. I have a French passport and could cross the border but there were a few other passengers with Russian passports connecting to the same flight to LHR -- normally they wouldn't be admitted to Germany without a visa. Since I was on a rush, I had to proceed to my flight and couldn't check what happened to them.
I asked BA flight attendants on the flight to Boston about that situation and they told me that because my ticket was not purchased on ba.com, British Airways holds no responsibility and I should contact the travel agent. I think this BA practice is irresponsible -- this was my first experience with a connection inside Europe on the same ticket/itinerary when no air-side transit option was offered in case of two international flights both from/to outside of Schengen. Even in Stockholm when I was connecting from BA to SU, I could in principle request an air-side transit via shuttle bus, which I didn't do because it was faster to cross the border and walk.
Ah -- of course my bag was lost in Berlin and arrived only today on Lufthansa according to a new baggage tag.
There was no notice about that in my ticket purchased through priceline. I have a French passport and could cross the border but there were a few other passengers with Russian passports connecting to the same flight to LHR -- normally they wouldn't be admitted to Germany without a visa. Since I was on a rush, I had to proceed to my flight and couldn't check what happened to them.
I asked BA flight attendants on the flight to Boston about that situation and they told me that because my ticket was not purchased on ba.com, British Airways holds no responsibility and I should contact the travel agent. I think this BA practice is irresponsible -- this was my first experience with a connection inside Europe on the same ticket/itinerary when no air-side transit option was offered in case of two international flights both from/to outside of Schengen. Even in Stockholm when I was connecting from BA to SU, I could in principle request an air-side transit via shuttle bus, which I didn't do because it was faster to cross the border and walk.
Ah -- of course my bag was lost in Berlin and arrived only today on Lufthansa according to a new baggage tag.
Jan 5, 2019, 4:54 pm
#2
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There are actually plenty of airports in Europe with no airside connections - this notably includes most French airports including ORY and NCE the second and third largest airports in the country.
you say you find BA irresponsible but I’m not sure about irresponsible to do what specifically? To sell flights on itineraries that go through Berlin (and likely ticketed as a S7 ticket in this case)?
you say you find BA irresponsible but I’m not sure about irresponsible to do what specifically? To sell flights on itineraries that go through Berlin (and likely ticketed as a S7 ticket in this case)?
Jan 5, 2019, 4:59 pm
#3
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I wouldn't have thought that a flight from Russia would land in a "Schengen" gate at an airport so would have assumed that some sort of immigration control would be in place for such flights.
In any case, in common with every airline, it's the passenger's job to make sure they have any visas/waivers/documents required for their journey, not BA's so if there was any sort of difficulty it would be at the passenger's door to sort it out.
In any case, in common with every airline, it's the passenger's job to make sure they have any visas/waivers/documents required for their journey, not BA's so if there was any sort of difficulty it would be at the passenger's door to sort it out.
Jan 5, 2019, 5:10 pm
#4
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It is 100% the passenger's responsibility to have in his possession all of the documents required for the journey to be undertaken. Language to that effect is clearly stated in the BA COC as well as that of SU and, so far as I know, of every carrier which transports passengers across borders. But, nothing for you to worry about as carriers, including SU, check documents before permitting passengers to board at DME (as you likely found yourself). If someone required a transit visa for Germany and did not have one, that person would be sitting at DME, not stuck at TXL.
The FA's with whom you spoke were at best misinformed and, in any event, the BA contract also makes clear that individual employees are not authorized to change the terms of the contract, e.g., it is the passenger's responsibility.
What you encountered is fairly common and the requirement of a transit visa exists for many countries including for the UK (not for US nationals). Indeed the US does not even have transit. Had you been a non-US national making a US connection, e.g. LHR-BOS-MEX, you would have been required to produce a visa or have a valid ESTA and nothing in your ticket would note the requirement.
Passengers should always check that they are properly documented for the trip they intend to take and there is free access to IATA's TIMATIC database, the tool used by air carriers to determine what documents an individual requires.
Your concerns are misplaced.
The FA's with whom you spoke were at best misinformed and, in any event, the BA contract also makes clear that individual employees are not authorized to change the terms of the contract, e.g., it is the passenger's responsibility.
What you encountered is fairly common and the requirement of a transit visa exists for many countries including for the UK (not for US nationals). Indeed the US does not even have transit. Had you been a non-US national making a US connection, e.g. LHR-BOS-MEX, you would have been required to produce a visa or have a valid ESTA and nothing in your ticket would note the requirement.
Passengers should always check that they are properly documented for the trip they intend to take and there is free access to IATA's TIMATIC database, the tool used by air carriers to determine what documents an individual requires.
Your concerns are misplaced.
Jan 5, 2019, 6:01 pm
#5
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With Russia as departure country, Germany as transit country with five hours in Germany, the UK as destination country and Russian citizenship, this tool states that:
This was a connection from S7 to BA which, according to the tool, was supposed to be possible without a visa, as long as S7 sends the required telex/fax messages. Does the fact that the OP was forced to pass through the passport control imply that S7 didn't send the telex/fax messages? I wonder how the passenger is supposed to know whether the airline will send those messages or not.
Transiting without a visa is possible for:
Passengers transiting through Berlin (TXL), arriving from a non-Schengen
Member State with a confirmed onward ticket for a flight between 06:00 and 23:00 to a third country which is not a Schengen Member State. They must:
- stay in the international transit area of the airport, and
- have documents required for their next destination.
TWOV in Berlin Tegel (TXL) is not possible when connecting to or from an United Airlines (UA) operated flight.
For TWOV through Berlin (TXL): before departure, passenger's name, itinerary, date, nationality and seat number must be sent by the carrier to the handling agent by fax or SITA Telex and to the airport authorities by SITA Telex TXLVZXH. The minimum connecting time is 75 minutes.
Passengers transiting through Berlin (TXL), arriving from a non-Schengen
Member State with a confirmed onward ticket for a flight between 06:00 and 23:00 to a third country which is not a Schengen Member State. They must:
- stay in the international transit area of the airport, and
- have documents required for their next destination.
TWOV in Berlin Tegel (TXL) is not possible when connecting to or from an United Airlines (UA) operated flight.
For TWOV through Berlin (TXL): before departure, passenger's name, itinerary, date, nationality and seat number must be sent by the carrier to the handling agent by fax or SITA Telex and to the airport authorities by SITA Telex TXLVZXH. The minimum connecting time is 75 minutes.
Jan 5, 2019, 6:18 pm
#6
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With Russia as departure country, Germany as transit country with five hours in Germany, the UK as destination country and Russian citizenship, this tool states that:This was a connection from S7 to BA which, according to the tool, was supposed to be possible without a visa, as long as S7 sends the required telex/fax messages. Does the fact that the OP was forced to pass through the passport control imply that S7 didn't send the telex/fax messages? I wonder how the passenger is supposed to know whether the airline will send those messages or not.
Jan 5, 2019, 7:40 pm
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Jan 5, 2019, 7:53 pm
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OP and the Russian nationals about which he is so worried, are all entitled to transit without visa for SU to BA at TXL so long as SU transmits passenger data.
But, the real bottom line is that it is irrelevant. A passenger must check his own particulars to determine that he is properly documented for the journey.
Jan 5, 2019, 7:59 pm
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Not that it makes a difference to the substance but fwiw, the op connection was s7 to ba and not su to ba. Op only mentioned su in the context of a previous arn transit.
Jan 5, 2019, 8:04 pm
#11
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This has nothing to do with a transit visa.
OP and the Russian nationals about which he is so worried, are all entitled to transit without visa for SU to BA at TXL so long as SU transmits passenger data.
But, the real bottom line is that it is irrelevant. A passenger must check his own particulars to determine that he is properly documented for the journey.
OP and the Russian nationals about which he is so worried, are all entitled to transit without visa for SU to BA at TXL so long as SU transmits passenger data.
But, the real bottom line is that it is irrelevant. A passenger must check his own particulars to determine that he is properly documented for the journey.
Glad to hear a French passport holder can transfer through a German airport without a visa though......
Jan 5, 2019, 8:41 pm
#12
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1. The ticket was issued by BA as I stated in my original post (125xxx) -- 125 is the BA namespace for those of you who are unaware. That was a business class ticket (I) with the 1st S7 segment in Y. The checked bag was tagged through to BOS.
2. Russian passport holders do not need a transit visa for airside transit in Schengen when arriving from an international destination and connecting to an international destination. They do need a visa if there is a "domestic" Schengen segment included in the itinerary (e.g. SVO-AMS-CDG-JFK).
3. My colleagues holding Russian passports traveled on similar itineraries and they didn't have to cross the Schengen border in "normal" German airports (FRA, MUC).
4. I made connections in Stockholm on *separate* tickets (SU-BA in both directions) without luggage and I was offered an option to do airside transit without crossing the border between terminals which I didn't use because I wanted to go to the lounge. The answer to my question about airside transit in TXL was "Englisch nicht" or whatever the correct spelling is.
2. Russian passport holders do not need a transit visa for airside transit in Schengen when arriving from an international destination and connecting to an international destination. They do need a visa if there is a "domestic" Schengen segment included in the itinerary (e.g. SVO-AMS-CDG-JFK).
3. My colleagues holding Russian passports traveled on similar itineraries and they didn't have to cross the Schengen border in "normal" German airports (FRA, MUC).
4. I made connections in Stockholm on *separate* tickets (SU-BA in both directions) without luggage and I was offered an option to do airside transit without crossing the border between terminals which I didn't use because I wanted to go to the lounge. The answer to my question about airside transit in TXL was "Englisch nicht" or whatever the correct spelling is.
Jan 5, 2019, 10:59 pm
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This has nothing to do with a transit visa.
OP and the Russian nationals about which he is so worried, are all entitled to transit without visa for SU to BA at TXL so long as SU transmits passenger data.
But, the real bottom line is that it is irrelevant. A passenger must check his own particulars to determine that he is properly documented for the journey.
OP and the Russian nationals about which he is so worried, are all entitled to transit without visa for SU to BA at TXL so long as SU transmits passenger data.
But, the real bottom line is that it is irrelevant. A passenger must check his own particulars to determine that he is properly documented for the journey.
Jan 6, 2019, 2:16 am
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Sorry I missed that in your op.
They are not "normal German airports", they are just the two largest airports in the country by far which handle a vast amount of transfer passengers (in both cases, the majority of their traffic) as does DUS, and are thus well equipped for connections. Same goes for ARN. Again, see my example above, if you have two flights going via CDG you will be able to transit airside, if you have two flights going via ORY, you won't be able to. If you consider CDG to be the "normal" airport, then you'll have to consider all other major French airports to be "abnormal". Logic dictates that in many ways, when you have a general case and one exception, then it is the exception which is not the norm and not the other way round.
I'm still not sure what you find irresponsible in BA's attitude there? Would you have wanted them to refuse to ticket this itinerary just in case some people forgot to check their transit requirements? Something else? What would you have wanted them to actually do??
They are not "normal German airports", they are just the two largest airports in the country by far which handle a vast amount of transfer passengers (in both cases, the majority of their traffic) as does DUS, and are thus well equipped for connections. Same goes for ARN. Again, see my example above, if you have two flights going via CDG you will be able to transit airside, if you have two flights going via ORY, you won't be able to. If you consider CDG to be the "normal" airport, then you'll have to consider all other major French airports to be "abnormal". Logic dictates that in many ways, when you have a general case and one exception, then it is the exception which is not the norm and not the other way round.
I'm still not sure what you find irresponsible in BA's attitude there? Would you have wanted them to refuse to ticket this itinerary just in case some people forgot to check their transit requirements? Something else? What would you have wanted them to actually do??
Jan 6, 2019, 2:25 am
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I'm struggling to see the basis for a complaint here. OP appears to be confused on a couple points:
The legal possibility to do a transit without visa is distinct from the physical practicality of doing so. It's always dependent on the architecture of the airport, published staffing hours at checkpoints and other things. The last time I looked some years ago, Ireland allows airside transit without visa for most passports, but at DUB this used to be possible only when connecting from T2 to T1 and not in the other direction due to the layout of the airport. Canada makes a legal provision for airside transit without visa from abroad to the US, but my own research before booking an itinerary a couple years ago revealed that in practice this can only be done at YYZ when arriving on AC again due to the layout of the airport.
This means airlines frequently sell itineraries where a visa might in practice be required for the transit for some or all pax, and pax book those either because their passport exempts them from the visa requirement anyway or because some benefit of the itinerary like price or timing outweighs the inconvenience of getting a visa. OP has a beef with this practice, but presumably this cumbersome itinerary was purchased because it was cheaper than a far simpler one-stop option at an airport like AMS, FRA, MUC or LHR where airside transit without visa is possible. Would OP prefer to pay more every trip if carriers like BA prohibit this sort of itinerary, solely to spare fellow pax the inconvenience of complying with whatever immigration rules govern the trip?
The legal possibility to do a transit without visa is distinct from the physical practicality of doing so. It's always dependent on the architecture of the airport, published staffing hours at checkpoints and other things. The last time I looked some years ago, Ireland allows airside transit without visa for most passports, but at DUB this used to be possible only when connecting from T2 to T1 and not in the other direction due to the layout of the airport. Canada makes a legal provision for airside transit without visa from abroad to the US, but my own research before booking an itinerary a couple years ago revealed that in practice this can only be done at YYZ when arriving on AC again due to the layout of the airport.
This means airlines frequently sell itineraries where a visa might in practice be required for the transit for some or all pax, and pax book those either because their passport exempts them from the visa requirement anyway or because some benefit of the itinerary like price or timing outweighs the inconvenience of getting a visa. OP has a beef with this practice, but presumably this cumbersome itinerary was purchased because it was cheaper than a far simpler one-stop option at an airport like AMS, FRA, MUC or LHR where airside transit without visa is possible. Would OP prefer to pay more every trip if carriers like BA prohibit this sort of itinerary, solely to spare fellow pax the inconvenience of complying with whatever immigration rules govern the trip?