Jan 1, 2019, 2:39 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Jan 22, 2019, 3:06 pm
#91
Join Date: Jan 2019
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 16
By way of an update. Expedia apologised for the first agent (offering IAD), they phoned AA who offered to re-route me via LAX to SJC (and I now get in at 1818 instead of 1555). Even though there was space on the BA SFO flights in W (on the BA flight number), AA would not offer as there was zero space in W for their code share portion and they would only offer a re-route based on their flight codes that had W available. Given that the SJC flight was cancelled all the cheap fare buckets to SFO were taken (by other pax being re-housed on them from the canx SJC) so offering me a refund was not in my favour as getting anywhere near SJC by rebooking on my own would be significantly more expensive (as only full fare buckets left available)
You can argue that S happens but this is a case where BA cancel a flight and the pax gets stuffed as refund is no help and AA only will re-route based on availability in their own fare classes/flight numbers. I guess that's the risk sometimes of a cheap fare in W (which by the was was £1K GBP OSL-SJC-SJC-MUC)
Edit...and I've just found out that they have shoved me in Economy LHR-LAX despite me specifically checking before I left the call that I would be rebooked in W (how incompetent can you get)
You can argue that S happens but this is a case where BA cancel a flight and the pax gets stuffed as refund is no help and AA only will re-route based on availability in their own fare classes/flight numbers. I guess that's the risk sometimes of a cheap fare in W (which by the was was £1K GBP OSL-SJC-SJC-MUC)
Edit...and I've just found out that they have shoved me in Economy LHR-LAX despite me specifically checking before I left the call that I would be rebooked in W (how incompetent can you get)
The agent said no SJC flights were showing on their system for the entire week, which seemed really strange. Anything going on with this route?
Jan 22, 2019, 3:35 pm
#92
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA GGL
Posts: 1,578
You didn't take a risk; this isn't some shonky error fare, a grand is a lot of money, and flights for that price are still on sale. You have a contract with Expedia, and in turn the airline. Don't feel like you were getting away with something - you had an agreement, and they're failing to honour it, and making you work to put it back together. It sounds like the people you're talking to are acting like it's not their issue - but they draw a salary for answering your calls on behalf of their employers, and as such, though it may not be their fault, it is their problem. By all means, use the carrot rather than the stick, but persist and get what you paid for.
Jan 22, 2019, 3:44 pm
#93
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: KSA
Programs: BA GfL, UA Gold, EK Silver, Hilton LT Diamond, Marriott LT Titanium, IHG Plat
Posts: 1,249
If the cancelled flight was operated by BA, then inform BA about BA's obligations under Article 8:It is hardly "at the earliest opportunity" if they are putting you on a later flight solely because there are no seats left in the relevant fare bucket. If BA won't put you on the earlier flight, then presumably something is due, although it is unclear what they are due.
Note that the obligation to reroute you under Regulation 261/2004 lies with the operating carrier. It seems that it is not your problem if there is an uncooperative travel agency or ticketing airline between you and the operating airline, per this ruling (the airline cancelled a flight but the travel agency waited several weeks before forwarding the notification to the passenger).
Note that the obligation to reroute you under Regulation 261/2004 lies with the operating carrier. It seems that it is not your problem if there is an uncooperative travel agency or ticketing airline between you and the operating airline, per this ruling (the airline cancelled a flight but the travel agency waited several weeks before forwarding the notification to the passenger).
The flight offered leaves at 1035 to LAX so is actually over 2 hours earlier than the original flight to SJC but because there is a 3 hour lay over in LAX I don;t actually arrive in SJC until 2.5 hours after I would have done. There is no space left on the 9th to SFO in W so not much more I can do and I am not sure any EU 261 will kick in as I am getting to destination and cancellation advised more than 14 days ahead of trip. (Am pretty sanguine about this so glad not that bothered about it and called AA who put me back in W on the LAX portion)
Jan 22, 2019, 3:53 pm
#94
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Well that's an AA-ism really, the general USA airline theory is "well we got you to your destination, what are you complaining about?". They are also aren't under EC261 for USA to UK services however this case is complicated by the fact that BA (presumably) are the operating airline in both cases. Since it's an AA ticket and AA rebooked you, BA may well send you to AA for resolution, which not be a great idea for you. However actually BA was and remains the operating airline and EC261 is fairly clear about downgrades. That's all after the event, before the event it's Expedia's job to resolve, and AA is the second line here, but as often noted here this is one of the issues of using online travel agents and using codeshares. Codeshares are intended to be the best of both worlds, until, of course, they aren't.
Jan 22, 2019, 4:38 pm
#95
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,017
- Delay compensation. Not applicable because you were informed more than 14 days in advance.
- Rebooking as soon as possible. Applicable even if you were informed more than 14 days in advance. Space in specific fare buckets is irrelevant, it's only space in the specific cabin which matters. If the operating airline won't offer the correct rebooking, then I'd imagine that some kind of compensation is due which is unrelated to the standard fixed-value compensation of 600 euros. I don't think that the regulation is meant to require you to book your own ticket and claim compensation afterwards if the airline won't help as many people don't have the money to do that.
Jan 23, 2019, 1:57 am
#96
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 30
For our delay in August BA is not budging. Our Dutch legal assistance firm has given up, not willing to take it to court for only a potential compensation of 600 euros. Short recap. Flight from Boston delayed (technical issues, t-storm, luggage unloading, all kinds of fun). Missed connection to Brussels. Was rebooked on Brussels airlines flight that was delayed a bit as well getting us into Brussels at 3 hours and 5 minutes. Without luggage (got there a few days later thankfully).
BA and Brussels Airlines deny they were late. All I have as proof is a screen print from my phone from flighstats.com showing different. Would the Cedr even consider this or is this completely hopeless? It also begs the question, how can I as a passenger proof what time the door opens of the plane? Are we to be so aware as to record this every time we arrive late?
BA and Brussels Airlines deny they were late. All I have as proof is a screen print from my phone from flighstats.com showing different. Would the Cedr even consider this or is this completely hopeless? It also begs the question, how can I as a passenger proof what time the door opens of the plane? Are we to be so aware as to record this every time we arrive late?
Jan 23, 2019, 2:42 am
#98
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
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BA and Brussels Airlines deny they were late. All I have as proof is a screen print from my phone from flighstats.com showing different. Would the Cedr even consider this or is this completely hopeless? It also begs the question, how can I as a passenger proof what time the door opens of the plane? Are we to be so aware as to record this every time we arrive late?
However it is important for people to make their own note of when doors open, or at least ping this thread within a day or two so we can dig out the dispatch records. Asking more than 48 hours late makes it almost impossible to get detailed information.
Jan 24, 2019, 12:17 pm
#99
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,246
Btw The case tracker has been updated for Blanche V easyJet Case tracker €“ Justice UK and says “Awaiting result of a reserved judgment” so it appears something is pending.
Last edited by FlyerTalker39574; Jan 24, 2019 at 2:04 pm
Jan 24, 2019, 12:46 pm
#100
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
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Posts: 21,997
Btw The case tracker has updated for Blanche V easyJet Case tracker – Justice UK and says “Awaiting result of a reserved judgment” so it appears something is pending.
The passenger’s claims were dismissed on the basis that while recital 15 is not binding on the court, it is persuasive and it was not for the court to go into the reasons and merits of the ATC decision. The passenger’s argument that the delay was caused by thunderstorms over Gatwick and did not amount to “freak weather conditions” was irrelevant.
It was the consequences of the ATC decision that caused the delay and, therefore, “extraordinary circumstances” apply. This decision has now been appealed to the Court of Appeal.
It was the consequences of the ATC decision that caused the delay and, therefore, “extraordinary circumstances” apply. This decision has now been appealed to the Court of Appeal.
Jan 24, 2019, 4:46 pm
#101
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 30
In in essence it seems you want to record the on board announcements, note the departure time and note arrival time (wheels down and doors open). Man, starting to sound like a job
.
Jan 25, 2019, 1:12 am
#102
Join Date: Jul 2014
Programs: Mucci de l'Arbitrage
Posts: 927
On 21 Jan BA proactively cancelled some short haul flights ahead of some potential bad weather at LHR in the afternoon of 22 Jan.
My colleague and I were affected (as well as a number of you). Cancellation code on expert flyer shows WEAT (note: not WEAN...).
My colleague has contacted BA and Heathrow who both confirmed the cancellations were not a result of Heathrow ATC slot reductions, but a proactive move by BA.
Wondering therefore if we should not all try an EC261 claim on them given that should not count as ‘extraordinary circumstances’...
I’m minded to do it, not so much for the cash, but to continue to remind them that should have enough deicing equipment and staff, which they have promised countless times at BAEC events and in the press.
Thoughts?
My colleague and I were affected (as well as a number of you). Cancellation code on expert flyer shows WEAT (note: not WEAN...).
My colleague has contacted BA and Heathrow who both confirmed the cancellations were not a result of Heathrow ATC slot reductions, but a proactive move by BA.
Wondering therefore if we should not all try an EC261 claim on them given that should not count as ‘extraordinary circumstances’...
I’m minded to do it, not so much for the cash, but to continue to remind them that should have enough deicing equipment and staff, which they have promised countless times at BAEC events and in the press.
Thoughts?
Jan 25, 2019, 1:18 am
#103
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,601
On 21 Jan BA proactively cancelled some short haul flights ahead of some potential bad weather at LHR in the afternoon of 22 Jan.
My colleague and I were affected (as well as a number of you). Cancellation code on expert flyer shows WEAT (note: not WEAN...).
My colleague has contacted BA and Heathrow who both confirmed the cancellations were not a result of Heathrow ATC slot reductions, but a proactive move by BA.
Wondering therefore if we should not all try an EC261 claim on them given that should not count as ‘extraordinary circumstances’...
I’m minded to do it, not so much for the cash, but to continue to remind them that should have enough deicing equipment and staff, which they have promised countless times at BAEC events and in the press.
Thoughts?
My colleague and I were affected (as well as a number of you). Cancellation code on expert flyer shows WEAT (note: not WEAN...).
My colleague has contacted BA and Heathrow who both confirmed the cancellations were not a result of Heathrow ATC slot reductions, but a proactive move by BA.
Wondering therefore if we should not all try an EC261 claim on them given that should not count as ‘extraordinary circumstances’...
I’m minded to do it, not so much for the cash, but to continue to remind them that should have enough deicing equipment and staff, which they have promised countless times at BAEC events and in the press.
Thoughts?
Jan 25, 2019, 1:26 am
#104
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 64,001
I think the tectonic plates are shifting in this area and whereas a few years ago I would say that you have zero chance, now I'm much less certain since we are seeing more use of the "all reasonable measures" aspect of EC261. I doubt BA would just give you the money however, I'd only embark on this if you were willing to go to at least CEDR on the matter, or MCOL, otherwise it would be a waste of everyone's time. Having said that, when I looked at the cancellations on that day, they seemed to have been fairly clever to have alternate flights within the 2 - 3 hour time window in many cases.
Jan 25, 2019, 7:41 am
#105
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 260
I fear I've left this too late, but wondered if anyone was able to provide a reason for the cancellation of the BA0857 (PRG-LHR) on Wednesday 22nd please?
Many thanks in advance,
~S
Many thanks in advance,
~S