Jan 1, 2019, 2:39 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
The 2019 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Jul 20, 2019, 2:36 am
#601
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Thanks- too late for us to get to Leeds now, as actually we are midlands area! So Heathrow isn’t awful.
Will I get a claim number automatically as my booking just looks like it’s all ok as amended to just the Heathrow to Vegas leg?
Should I just do it now before I leave or wait in case they send me this claim number?
Thanks!
Will I get a claim number automatically as my booking just looks like it’s all ok as amended to just the Heathrow to Vegas leg?
Should I just do it now before I leave or wait in case they send me this claim number?
Thanks!
ba.com/delay
Jul 20, 2019, 8:05 am
#602
Join Date: May 2014
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 278
Would anybody be able to check the reason for the delay that BA is registering for BA887 OTP to LHR yesterday (19th) please?
Can BA claim 2 separate reasons for delay - one for the first hour and a second for 2 following hours? I’m not sure what effect that may have on an EC/261 claim (I have read the wiki)
thanks in advance
Can BA claim 2 separate reasons for delay - one for the first hour and a second for 2 following hours? I’m not sure what effect that may have on an EC/261 claim (I have read the wiki)
thanks in advance
Jul 20, 2019, 8:13 am
#603
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Would anybody be able to check the reason for the delay that BA is registering for BA887 OTP to LHR yesterday (19th) please?
Can BA claim 2 separate reasons for delay - one for the first hour and a second for 2 following hours? I’m not sure what effect that may have on an EC/261 claim (I have read the wiki)
thanks in advance
Can BA claim 2 separate reasons for delay - one for the first hour and a second for 2 following hours? I’m not sure what effect that may have on an EC/261 claim (I have read the wiki)
thanks in advance
Jul 20, 2019, 11:24 am
#604
Join Date: May 2014
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 278
Thanks CWS - initially the flight was delayed due to ATC restrictions for weather reasons so I know no compensation would be due for that delay. However a passenger then noticed a window seal broken and so then the other delay started (as it caused quite some head scratching by all concerned, including with the engineers back at Heathrow!)
eventually all resolved but I’m unclear as to timing and also whether both the ATC delay and the technical problem would both have been recorded or only one?
eventually all resolved but I’m unclear as to timing and also whether both the ATC delay and the technical problem would both have been recorded or only one?
Jul 20, 2019, 11:31 am
#605
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BA appears to be quite good as recording the reasons for delay so would have a record that says eg 50 minutes due to ATC and 65 minutes for mechanical etc
Jul 20, 2019, 12:29 pm
#606
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Thanks CWS - initially the flight was delayed due to ATC restrictions for weather reasons so I know no compensation would be due for that delay. However a passenger then noticed a window seal broken and so then the other delay started (as it caused quite some head scratching by all concerned, including with the engineers back at Heathrow!)
eventually all resolved but I’m unclear as to timing and also whether both the ATC delay and the technical problem would both have been recorded or only one?
eventually all resolved but I’m unclear as to timing and also whether both the ATC delay and the technical problem would both have been recorded or only one?
Jul 20, 2019, 4:00 pm
#607
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK - BHD
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Posts: 912
Suggestions would be much appreciated...
As I mentioned in a post a few weeks ago ("BA 278/279 (LHR-SJC-LHR) cancelled 28 June 2019") I was booked to travel in CW SJC-LHR on 28 June.
Although Boreas had kindly checked on Expertflyer and noted that this cancellation was showing as an eligible operational delay, my EC261 compensation claim was rejected. The explanation given for rejection was simply that the flight "was cancelled because of Operational reasons, which was outside of our control"
To briefly recap salient points, I received a text more than 24hrs before scheduled departure (~1700hrs local time on 27 June) to indicate that the flight had been cancelled. As the outbound LHR-SJC on the same day had also been cancelled, the notification time was also more than 12 hrs before the aircraft was due to leave London. I mention this because it indicates that there was plenty of time for BA to overcome many possible unforeseen problems relating to the operation of the flight from its main base - in view of the many operational failures that are not extraordinary or unforeseeable in running an airline (excluding those broadly accepted to constitute extraordinary circumstances based on the ECJ's various interpretations of the regulation in cases that have been brought).
Naturally, I intend to push back on this but would value the forum's sage advice on to how best to proceed. I had planned to ask for details of the reason for the cancellation and an explanation of why BA took the view that this was consistent with the ECJ application of the term 'extraordinary', as used in the regulation. Though I wonder whether someone on here might have a way of accessing this info... is any detail still available on ExpertFlyer, for example?
And, just by way of datapoint, I had inquired on here about how much BA would refund for hotel and subsistence relating to this cancellation. I put in a claim for approx £500 for 2 people, knowing it may not be fully paid as wisdom on this forum is that £200 for a hotel room is acceptable to BA. Curiously, they have offered £300... which I think is odd because it is neither the cost of the room, nor equivalent to £200 + breakfast and dinner claims. It seems like a curiously round number to have been derived by anything other than a finger in the air!
Thank you in advance for information/advice.
Although Boreas had kindly checked on Expertflyer and noted that this cancellation was showing as an eligible operational delay, my EC261 compensation claim was rejected. The explanation given for rejection was simply that the flight "was cancelled because of Operational reasons, which was outside of our control"
To briefly recap salient points, I received a text more than 24hrs before scheduled departure (~1700hrs local time on 27 June) to indicate that the flight had been cancelled. As the outbound LHR-SJC on the same day had also been cancelled, the notification time was also more than 12 hrs before the aircraft was due to leave London. I mention this because it indicates that there was plenty of time for BA to overcome many possible unforeseen problems relating to the operation of the flight from its main base - in view of the many operational failures that are not extraordinary or unforeseeable in running an airline (excluding those broadly accepted to constitute extraordinary circumstances based on the ECJ's various interpretations of the regulation in cases that have been brought).
Naturally, I intend to push back on this but would value the forum's sage advice on to how best to proceed. I had planned to ask for details of the reason for the cancellation and an explanation of why BA took the view that this was consistent with the ECJ application of the term 'extraordinary', as used in the regulation. Though I wonder whether someone on here might have a way of accessing this info... is any detail still available on ExpertFlyer, for example?
And, just by way of datapoint, I had inquired on here about how much BA would refund for hotel and subsistence relating to this cancellation. I put in a claim for approx £500 for 2 people, knowing it may not be fully paid as wisdom on this forum is that £200 for a hotel room is acceptable to BA. Curiously, they have offered £300... which I think is odd because it is neither the cost of the room, nor equivalent to £200 + breakfast and dinner claims. It seems like a curiously round number to have been derived by anything other than a finger in the air!
Thank you in advance for information/advice.
Jul 20, 2019, 4:30 pm
#608
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Presumably this was BA1391 schedule 12:05pm.
Results from https://www.ExpertFlyer.com
From other posts in this thread, FCRY can indicate flight crew issues.
Results from https://www.ExpertFlyer.com
Code:
Flight Status Search: Departing on 20/07/19 Flying BA flight 1391
Flight Status Depart Location Depart Date Reliability Arrive Location Arrive Date
MAN Scheduled: 20/07/19 12:05 PM LHR Scheduled: 20/07/19 1:15 PM
BA 1391 Canceled Term: 3 Estimated: 76% / 24m Term: 5 Estimated:
Gate: Actual: Gate: Actual:
Comments:
"DOBA1391/20JUL
* OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA1391 0 SA 20JUL19
CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL)
FLIGHT CANCELLED 1924
FCRY
*1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA1391 0 SA 20JUL19
APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL
MAN 1205 SA JCDRI/M YB/G 319 1:10
HKMLVNOQSG/G
LHR 1315 SA 1:10
COMMENTS-
1.MAN LHR - MEMBER OF ONEWORLD
2.MAN LHR - DEPARTS TERMINAL 3
3.MAN LHR - ARRIVES TERMINAL 5
4.MAN LHR - 9/ NON-SMOKING
5.MAN LHR - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
6.MAN LHR - DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN BY SECURITY ON DEPARTURE
7.MAN LHR - CO2/PAX* 46.74 KG ECO, 46.74 KG PRE
(*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR
CONFIGURATION-
319 C 24 M 107
>"
Jul 20, 2019, 5:08 pm
#609
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Surrey
Programs: BAEC - Gold
Posts: 885
Could I just check I have this right...
I was due to fly INV-LHR-JFK on Sunday 21 July and then JFK-LAX-SEA on 22 July, all on one AA ticket.
BA cancelled the INV-LHR leg on Friday 19 July and so I phoned BA who put me through to AA, as the ticket is theirs, who then removed the INV-LHR portion of the ticket allowing me to start at Heathrow. They also, very kindly, moved the LHR-JFK leg to 20 July so I could have a long weekend in New York before making my way to Seattle as originally ticketed on 22 July.
Rather brilliantly, BA totally refunded me for a separately booked Avios ticket LHR-INV booked for 20 July even though they didn’t have to as it was within 24 hours. Once they understood the reason (the inbound INV-LHR had been cancelled and there were no alternatives until the middle of next week!) they were really good about it. Impressive.
What I am wondering is whether American owe me anything under EU261? I’m out of pocket for my accommodation in Inverness. I sort of think best to just leave it regardless as everyone, both AA and BA, have been so helpful.
Does anyone know how I stand?
Many thanks
TFC
I was due to fly INV-LHR-JFK on Sunday 21 July and then JFK-LAX-SEA on 22 July, all on one AA ticket.
BA cancelled the INV-LHR leg on Friday 19 July and so I phoned BA who put me through to AA, as the ticket is theirs, who then removed the INV-LHR portion of the ticket allowing me to start at Heathrow. They also, very kindly, moved the LHR-JFK leg to 20 July so I could have a long weekend in New York before making my way to Seattle as originally ticketed on 22 July.
Rather brilliantly, BA totally refunded me for a separately booked Avios ticket LHR-INV booked for 20 July even though they didn’t have to as it was within 24 hours. Once they understood the reason (the inbound INV-LHR had been cancelled and there were no alternatives until the middle of next week!) they were really good about it. Impressive.
What I am wondering is whether American owe me anything under EU261? I’m out of pocket for my accommodation in Inverness. I sort of think best to just leave it regardless as everyone, both AA and BA, have been so helpful.
Does anyone know how I stand?
Many thanks
TFC
Jul 20, 2019, 5:13 pm
#610
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No, they don't owe you anything here, beyond Right to Care which they seem to have handled more than adequately. The reason being that the cause of the cancellation is a strike by ATCO Inverness, who are in dispute with their employer HIAL. So that's in the "extraordinary circumstances" area, and thus not covered by EC261.
Jul 22, 2019, 5:24 am
#612
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Edinburgh
Programs: HH Diamond, RR Platinum, BA Gold
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I'm in a similar situation to TheFlyingCyclist albeit I was supposed to be on the 20th July INV-LHR flight, 1 day prior to the planned industrial action, which was also cancelled on the evening of the 19th. BA were unable to re-route me within the time constraints of my trip, therefore I was forced to cancel the whole journey (which has been fully refunded).
BA are refusing any compensation or expenses stating that the cancellation was due to an airport restriction (ExpertFlyer confirms this). However I'm struggling to believe this had anything to do with the industrial action as the airport was open for business on the 20th and all other flights departed as normal with the exception of this one.
BA have closed the case and told me there is nothing else they can do. Should I pursue this further, I'm out of pocket by a couple of hundred because of this?
BA1467 - Saturday 20th July
Notice of airport closure
BA are refusing any compensation or expenses stating that the cancellation was due to an airport restriction (ExpertFlyer confirms this). However I'm struggling to believe this had anything to do with the industrial action as the airport was open for business on the 20th and all other flights departed as normal with the exception of this one.
BA have closed the case and told me there is nothing else they can do. Should I pursue this further, I'm out of pocket by a couple of hundred because of this?
BA1467 - Saturday 20th July
Code:
DOBA1467/20JUL * OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA1467 -1 SA 20JUL19 CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL) FLIGHT CANCELLED 1449 ARPT *1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA1467 -1 SA 20JUL19 APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL INV 0705 SA JCDRI/M YB/G 319 1:30 HKMLVNOQSGX/G LHR 0835 SA 1:30 COMMENTS- 1.INV LHR - MEMBER OF ONEWORLD 2.INV LHR - ARRIVES TERMINAL 5 3.INV LHR - 9/ NON-SMOKING 4.INV LHR - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE 5.INV LHR - DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN BY SECURITY ON DEPARTURE 6.INV LHR - CO2/PAX* 98.27 KG ECO, 98.27 KG PRE (*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR CONFIGURATION- 319 C 24 M 107
Code:
**NOTAM** Q) EGPX/QAZCD/IV/NBO/AE/000/021/5733N00403W003 B) FROM: 19/07/21 01:45 C) TO: 19/07/21 21:30 E) INVERNESS ATZ DE-ACTIVATED A2186/19
Jul 22, 2019, 6:12 am
#613
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I'm in a similar situation to TheFlyingCyclist albeit I was supposed to be on the 20th July INV-LHR flight, 1 day prior to the planned industrial action, which was also cancelled on the evening of the 19th. BA were unable to re-route me within the time constraints of my trip, therefore I was forced to cancel the whole journey (which has been fully refunded).
Now I think it's going to a stretch to argue that BA should have had an aircraft left there earlier in the day, but what is missing here is why the airport was closed on the evening of 19 July, and I don't have any information on that. Did you check Expertflyer BA1466 on 19 July to see if there was anything on that? I'm one day too late to find out. You could perhaps call INV airport to see if someone there can tell you more.
So if it was an airport restriction then you're not going to get Article 7 compensation. Out of pocket expenses are often consequential losses, which would be for your travel insurance, but if any of them fall under Right to Care you may be able to take this forward.
Jul 22, 2019, 6:39 am
#614
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Edinburgh
Programs: HH Diamond, RR Platinum, BA Gold
Posts: 54
Hi CWS, thanks for your response.
The airport was open on Friday 19th, the NOTAM dates are in YY-MM-DD format. I checked and there were no other notifications affecting the airport or surrounding area on the 19th.
I sure did, unfortunately just the same cancellation code.
The aircraft servicing BA1466 on the 19th was G-EUPO. This arrived late into LHR from NCE (BA0355) resulting in a delayed departure time of 20:50. LHR-INV is an estimated flight time of 1hr 40min meaning the new arrival time would have been 22:30... Inverness airport closes at 22:30, therefore could this be the "airport restriction" they are referring to? Surely this is then BA's problem for missing the scheduled departure (I'm purely speculating now)?
Unfortunately there are no comments on why BA0355 from NCE was delayed.
Code:
DOBA1466/19JUL * OPERATIONAL FLIGHT INFO * BA1466 -2 FR 19JUL19 CITY INFO HOUR (LOCAL) LHR ESTIMATED TIME OF DEPARTURE 2050 FLIGHT CANCELLED 1449 ARPT *1A PLANNED FLIGHT INFO* BA1466 -2 FR 19JUL19 APT ARR DY DEP DY CLASS/MEAL EQP GRND EFT TTL LHR 2020 FR JCDRI/M YB/G 319 1:40 HKMLVNOQSGX/G INV 2200 FR 1:40 COMMENTS- 1.LHR INV - MEMBER OF ONEWORLD 2.LHR INV - DEPARTS TERMINAL 5 3.LHR INV - 9/ NON-SMOKING 4.LHR INV - ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE 5.LHR INV - DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN BY SECURITY ON DEPARTURE 6.LHR INV - CO2/PAX* 98.27 KG ECO, 98.27 KG PRE (*):SOURCE:ICAO CARBON EMISSIONS CALCULATOR CONFIGURATION- 319 C 24 M 107
The aircraft servicing BA1466 on the 19th was G-EUPO. This arrived late into LHR from NCE (BA0355) resulting in a delayed departure time of 20:50. LHR-INV is an estimated flight time of 1hr 40min meaning the new arrival time would have been 22:30... Inverness airport closes at 22:30, therefore could this be the "airport restriction" they are referring to? Surely this is then BA's problem for missing the scheduled departure (I'm purely speculating now)?
Unfortunately there are no comments on why BA0355 from NCE was delayed.
Jul 22, 2019, 7:06 am
#615
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The aircraft servicing BA1466 on the 19th was G-EUPO. This arrived late into LHR from NCE (BA0355) resulting in a delayed departure time of 20:50. LHR-INV is an estimated flight time of 1hr 40min meaning the new arrival time would have been 22:30... Inverness airport closes at 22:30, therefore could this be the "airport restriction" they are referring to? Surely this is then BA's problem for missing the scheduled departure (I'm purely speculating now)?
Unfortunately there are no comments on why BA0355 from NCE was delayed.
Unfortunately there are no comments on why BA0355 from NCE was delayed.