Globaliser

It's entirely up to you whether you choose to strike out on your own by buying a completely separate ticket, and thereby incur the risk that the original airline is not legally liable to reimburse you for the cost of that additional ticket. If you had instead taken the PE option, at least you would then have had a firm basis for getting at least the statutory repayment due to you. Things do go wrong from time to time, and none of us is too important or too special to have to sit in PE - especially on a fairly short flight.

Being rude to a FTer who is giving you advice accordingly rather suggests that you don't want to hear anything that you find inconvenient or unpalatable. Everyone (including BA) is agreed that what happened to your booking wasn't right.

DrSE

I started this thread to get different point of view and I am thankful for them. It wasn't meant to offend the FTer just a little sarcastic. So everyone relax please.

Of course I am angry that I was abandoned by BA. What I can understand is passengers that just accept everything. There might be tongs of things in the t&c which are not applicable. Once again if BA and me have a contract --> fly me to CAI in BIZ and they can't and they dont offer anything else then flying a day after or in a lower class. I think I am allowed to claim the costs for alternative transportation but we will see.

rocketship87

Thanks for clarifying your intentions; your post did come across as quite rude but sarcasm doesn't always read well.

You are allowed to claim whatever you want, however it does appear that BA is not obligated to pay your claim under the law, for the reasons provided.

DrSE

I did not see any reliable statements yet - only opinions. No one really was able to show me why BA would not need to pay the other ticket.

under the law : Which law are we talking about?

KARFA

KARFA

stargold

Why would you trade BA WTP for a less comfortable seat and the inevitable hassle (and trust me, it will be a hassle) of trying to claim the cost of the replacement ticket?

If LH would have been a proper longhaul seat then I would understand, but it's a Euro J. Both LH and BA involve a transit, so no advantage there either.

Sounds like a rash decision on your part, perhaps in frustration at the situation.

LondonElite

Cool slip of the fingers!

Back on topic, I do find it a little strange that a BA longhaul PE seat was declined in favour a a LH Euro-J seat. I don't see the reimbursement outcome either...

corporate-wage-slave

OK, have a look at the BA Conditions of Carriage and also the main EC261 thread in the Dashboard. Essentially when you sign up for a BA flight you sign up to these Conditions of Carriage, and to be blunt, BA are allowed to change or even cancel your reservation. If they do that then you have a number of consumer protections, not just EC261, but that's probably the best coverage.

If we go to section 9 of the Conditions of Carriage:

So your remedy there is a refund if you don't like the WTP option. As a note, what may perhaps not be clear is that WTP on BA is on a longhaul aircraft, whereas Business on Lufthansa is a European shorthaul aircraft. WTP would have given you a better seat, more legroom, better catering, and inflight entertainment than Lufthansa in this specific example. On the other hand it's possible there would have been wifi on LH and you presumably would have got lounge access if you don't have status on oneworld.

Returning to the core argument, in addition to the fare refund, EC261 would have given you further protection but here you are on thin ice. The reason being is that BA is also allowed in EC261 to downgrade you, there is a whole article (Article 10) within EC261 dedicated to how this is processed. There is also Article 8 which provides the protection you have for re-routing. EC261 finally then gives you compensation or reimbursement mechanisms. If BA had refused to rebook you, or you couldn't get through or had only given you an option the next day (and this is emerging jurisprudence) then you may, perhaps, have a case to rebook yourself, but the legal basis is currently weak.

As I see this, all you will get back from BA is the involuntary fare recalculation for the sector and perhaps some Avios by way of customer service remediation. And though you could seek to recover more from the courts under Article 8, I can't see a good basis for that claim.

It's the sort of thing where it's best to put a post up in FT and leave it an hour before acting, since usually you will get some good advice here very quickly.

Krisz

I think one interesting aspect of this story is that if the OP goes manage my bookings and cancel the trip then BA most likely will ask the customer to buy a new ticket. I think one big question is that when BA cancelled the ticket means the contract is void too? In my reading the time when OP called BA there was no longer a valid contract between the parties as BA cancelled it. Then BA offered a "new" contract under different terms which was not suitable for the OP and BA hasn't offered any other suitable alternatives. I think EU 261 will not apply to that case as CWS pointed out EU261 needs a valid ticket where there wasn't anymore any ticket. OP mentioned Germany I guess he bought the ticket in that country but using a call centre so he might needs some legal help in that country as he might be protected differently then EU261. One more aspect that I think can play is this ticket purchased by an individual person or on behalf of a company? (ie paid by a company)

EsherFlyer

It goes something like this, in my opinion :

1. You were not permitted to fly on the ticket you had arranged in good faith
2. That situation is covered by EC261, which airlines in member states are required to abide by
3. The text there says: 4.3: You should get compensation and assistance; 8.1b: Rerouting under comparable conditions
4. I think your argument is that "comparable conditions" means "same class", but the 2013 interpretation notes says at 4.2 "if possible, passengers should not be downgraded" suggesting that downgrade may be a reasonable way of meeting the requirement.

You could argue that you wanted "more comparable" conditions, but others seem to think you chose worse / less comparable which would weaken that argument.

DrSE

This is a very interesting sight to what happened I think this could be a good base asking for the compensation of 2100 euro.

Mike P

Unfortunately you are clutching at straws here. Several very knowledgable posters, including people very well versed in EC261, have pointed out that what BA offered you was what they were obliged to offer and you chose to refuse. As C-W-S points out above, you are extremely unlikely to get back more than the involuntary fare recalculation.

mec72

I wouldn't think so, but I'm sure it's somewhere in the contract/T&Cs.

A separate question is whether EC 261 is an exclusive remedy here. I though it wasn't?

DrSE

They offered a new Contract with different content. So I had the right to decline. This is not an average Airport downgrade situation.