gordo6

It just seems that tonight's BA163 is cursed. Firstly G-YMMA is delayed, now G-STBC, what's next?

UKtravelbear

https://www.heathrow.com/file_source...Draft-2017.pdf

1HourPhoto

G-STBC is now up in the air on its way back from Madrid.

TWEED1A

Looks like MMA had a big tech delay last night, which caused the fleet to be shuffled around. The new aircraft, TBC, picked up a couple of different delays before heading out to MAD, and seems to have had to return to stand in MAD when operating the return flight as well, hence the 163 is now running late 2h40. I see the 139 to BOM was delayed over 3 hours, so I suspect there might be a few tech 777s around today.

gordo6

I'm not sure that MMA had a tech delay. It's just that it is operating BKK flights for two days in a row, which, as a BKK rotation takes about 26 hours (from LHR departure to landing), caused BA9/10 on the second day (i.e. today) to be delayed by 5 hours. Therefore the TLV flight was originally delayed by about 4 hours, and was then changes to G-STBC, which is now also delayed.
The reason that BA9/10 were operating two days in a row by G-YMMA is unknown to me. Probably some other aircraft that went tech.

flatlander

That's the landing and other charges for operating an aircraft if you have a slot allocation. Getting a slot allocation is separately costly, either buying one or arranging with a slot holder to use it on an occasional basis. Section 5.4 refers:

Globaliser

And actually arrived a little bit before that ETA, at 2124. So the departure of BA163 is now estimated at 2315, which is a small improvement on the previous ETD.

gordo6

TWEED1A

The reason given in our operational systems was for a tech delay. The BKK rotation from 9th March was operated by MME. At the end of the day, it seems like there is a shortage of serviceable 777s, hence the delays to various 777 operated services on 9th March.

UKtravelbear

read the document - see Schedule 5 1.1 - NOISE CHARGES

This is a discussion about noise charges re a late / early landing at night NOT how much a slot costs.

flatlander

You also need to read the document, to see that to operate a flight at night you will need to pay:

Passenger handling charge
Whatever water, sewerage, licenses for staff, check-in desks, PRM, etc services you need.
Noise charge
NOx charge

and you will have to have a slot from ACL (Aircraft Coordination Limited), the cost or availability of which is not within the scope of this document.

If you are an airline already operating at Heathrow you will get a certain number of night slots, if you need more you will have to get the use of one from someone else. Unless that someone is feeling quite generous you will have to pay for it. If you aircraft is late and missed its daytime slot, you will need another one for night operations, out of your allowance or that you bought from someone else.

The cost of operating an aircraft to Heathrow inevitably includes the cost of a slot. They're not cheap, you know.

mikebg

I would say that for a flight to TLV 2315 is far more comfortable a time than 2035 (the original time) which is truly horrendous (and a flight I almost always avoid). I leaves too early to be tired enough to sleep and arrives at about 3am. Given the choice I would always prefer a 2315 departure (in the summer they have a 2240 flight instead of 2035, which is also quite a good time).

Snafu_again

I'm afraid you're getting sidetracked by the supposed "worth/cost" of movement slots at Heathrow which is not relevant in this instance. Hopefully this will explain .....

The most restrictive Night Noise period at LHR is 23:30 - 06:00. Departures are not normally scheduled in that period.

Let's say a flight is scheduled to depart at 22:30, is then delayed, and it becomes likely that it would have to depart after 23:30, then the airline may apply to HAL for permission to do so. As examples, permission can be granted in adverse weather conditions or in cases where passenger hardship may result if the flight has to night stop. HAL don't like a few hundred passengers cluttering the terminals overnight !
Each aircraft type has a noise Quota Count (QC) for Landing and another for Takeoff (a B737-800 may be QC 0.5 or QC1.0 for takeoff and a B747-400 QC 4 for takeoff. The A380 is QC2 for takeoff).
The airport also has a maximum QC Quota set for each summer/winter season. Add up all the QC's for those late departures and if they hit the limit - no more night flights until the next season starts.
And just to add to the mire, the Night Noise limitations can be "dispensed" in cases of mass disruption such as in a Snowmageddon

These links may be of interest
https://www.heathrow.com/noise/heath.../night-flights

https://www.heathrow.com/file_source...nuary_2018.pdf

Airprox