May 22, 2018, 3:28 am
Last edit by: serfty
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
How about a Wiki to post EU comp given/denied as well as results for any CEDR or other process. Especially concerning the 787 issue as there are going to be many claims given all the cancellations.
Mine was April 22 BA280 LAX-LHR cancellation 4 days before flight and rebooked on later flight and arrived 4.5 hrs later than origianlly scheduled. BA's response was to deny for "operational" requirements though the 787 "tentatively assigned" G-ZBJG was used instead for a LHR-YUL flight that same day. CEDR filed and awaiting their initial review. Sept 3rd UPDATE: CEDR decision in Article 7 comp awarded in the amount of 600 euro as even though extraordinary circumstances are present in an engine defect as this, BA didn't show that they took reasonable steps to avoid the cancellation as they have known since Oct 2017 of this issue.
The 2018 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Jul 9, 2018, 11:53 pm
#871
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,600
Some hours later, a friend alerted me that an award seat in Y had opened up on the CDG-JFK flight. I am not seeking a windfall, but as I'll face a 3-digit rebooking fee when I do rebook the LHR-JFK flight, I do want the Rule 261 comp and wasn't sure whether I'd get it if I did not fly to LHR on the flight BA rebooked me on, which is why I posted the question. As I read the responses posted before I had to get over to CDG T2 as negative, I thought it prudent to take the rebooked flight to LHR and fly home from there. Which I've now done.
Thanks to all the FTers who tried to answer my question, and my apologies if I wasn't clear. I was trying to write as little as possible.
Thanks to all the FTers who tried to answer my question, and my apologies if I wasn't clear. I was trying to write as little as possible.
Jul 10, 2018, 2:05 am
#872
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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@Globaliser - note another example of what was presumably 13:44 CET = 12:44 BST = 06:44 EF time.
Jul 10, 2018, 3:40 am
#873
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brexile in ADB
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Posts: 7,067
A friend of mine is currently being given the run around on a EU261 downgrade (not on BA but I hope the information may be relevant and useful)
Tui came back to the initial request stating that the delay was only 2 hours and 40 minutes and so no compensation was due. Which is fine but the claim was based on the downgrade. My friend responded by restating the basis of the claim is a downgrade.
Tui came back by telephone stating they had no record of the downgrade (nor of an incident where his daughter was burned by hot tea).
This is where is gets interesting.
My friend has placed a Subject Access Request (SAR) under GDPR. This means that the company has to provide every scrap of information relating to my friend and his daughter since 2011, including the incident log of the flight which the claim relates to.
The airline then requested two forms of ID, this is incorrect under GDPR, which allows this only where the identity could reasonably be in doubt. As the request came from an email previously used for passing confidential information this was unreasonable. TUI now have one month to deliver all the information. There is likely to be a substantial cost to collecting all this information.
This will provide all the necessary information for the EU261 claim.
It seems to be a common tactic of airlines to delay and obfuscate EU 261 claims. GDPR adds an additional aid to those making a claim and force the airline to provide evidence or be subject to severe penalties from the ICO.
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations...ght-of-access/
Tui came back to the initial request stating that the delay was only 2 hours and 40 minutes and so no compensation was due. Which is fine but the claim was based on the downgrade. My friend responded by restating the basis of the claim is a downgrade.
Tui came back by telephone stating they had no record of the downgrade (nor of an incident where his daughter was burned by hot tea).
This is where is gets interesting.
My friend has placed a Subject Access Request (SAR) under GDPR. This means that the company has to provide every scrap of information relating to my friend and his daughter since 2011, including the incident log of the flight which the claim relates to.
The airline then requested two forms of ID, this is incorrect under GDPR, which allows this only where the identity could reasonably be in doubt. As the request came from an email previously used for passing confidential information this was unreasonable. TUI now have one month to deliver all the information. There is likely to be a substantial cost to collecting all this information.
This will provide all the necessary information for the EU261 claim.
It seems to be a common tactic of airlines to delay and obfuscate EU 261 claims. GDPR adds an additional aid to those making a claim and force the airline to provide evidence or be subject to severe penalties from the ICO.
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations...ght-of-access/
Jul 10, 2018, 3:51 am
#874
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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It seems to be a common tactic of airlines to delay and obfuscate EU 261 claims. GDPR adds an additional aid to those making a claim and force the airline to provide evidence or be subject to severe penalties from the ICO.
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations...ght-of-access/
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations...ght-of-access/
TUI is also in the same CEDR scheme as BA, so the faster alternative (once deadlock has been reached) is for the passengers to make a statement of truth (or something similar), then essentially the onus is on TUI to explain how they got that wrong. I imagine a photo of the seat and boarding pass would come in handy, but ultimately it would be for TUI to prove their case, not the passenger. The issue of getting proof - which is a natural reaction in areas of doubt - kind of lets airlines off their responsibilities. The Regulation is quite deliberately stacked in favour of the passenger.
Jul 10, 2018, 5:06 am
#875
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: New York, NY, USA
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Posts: 4,378
I think the APD was only 69 GBP, but I am going to try to reclaim it from AA.
Jul 10, 2018, 1:29 pm
#876
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 35
Update regarding BA0877 from Tallinn on 15th June:
So, I had an email from BA this afternoon after I asked them for the deadlock letter, seems they have rethought their original decision...
So, no need to go to the CEDR in the end! 
Shame that my fiancé needs to write them a letter to get his compensation - I now understand why it’s better to claim separately - but hopefully it won’t take too long to sort his out as well. Thanks again for your help on this!
So, I had an email from BA this afternoon after I asked them for the deadlock letter, seems they have rethought their original decision...
Thanks for coming back to me. I'm sorry you were disappointed with my response.
Your case has been reviewed by our Flight Investigations team. I'm pleased to advise you’re entitled to compensation for the delay to your flight BA0877on 15 June. The distance of your disrupted journey was between 1,500km and 3,500km and this has been calculated in accordance with EU legislation. This means you’re entitled to €400.00 in compensation. This equates to £353.71.
I’ve raised a bank transfer for this amount to your XXXXX account, using the details you've provided. Please allow 3-5 days for the payment to show in your account.
If you'd like to claim on behalf of Mr XXXXXX, under the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) within the UK, I’ll need written confirmation signed by him so you can deal with this matter on his behalf. Please send your letter to the following address:
British Airways
Customer Relations (S506)
PO Box 1126
Uxbridge
UB8 9XS
United Kingdom
If you prefer, you can fax it to us on: 0178 788 3195. It would be helpful if you could include your case reference number on any letters you send us.
Thanks again for getting in touch. Please don't hesitate to contact me again if I can help you with anything else.
Your case has been reviewed by our Flight Investigations team. I'm pleased to advise you’re entitled to compensation for the delay to your flight BA0877on 15 June. The distance of your disrupted journey was between 1,500km and 3,500km and this has been calculated in accordance with EU legislation. This means you’re entitled to €400.00 in compensation. This equates to £353.71.
I’ve raised a bank transfer for this amount to your XXXXX account, using the details you've provided. Please allow 3-5 days for the payment to show in your account.
If you'd like to claim on behalf of Mr XXXXXX, under the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) within the UK, I’ll need written confirmation signed by him so you can deal with this matter on his behalf. Please send your letter to the following address:
British Airways
Customer Relations (S506)
PO Box 1126
Uxbridge
UB8 9XS
United Kingdom
If you prefer, you can fax it to us on: 0178 788 3195. It would be helpful if you could include your case reference number on any letters you send us.
Thanks again for getting in touch. Please don't hesitate to contact me again if I can help you with anything else.
Shame that my fiancé needs to write them a letter to get his compensation - I now understand why it’s better to claim separately - but hopefully it won’t take too long to sort his out as well. Thanks again for your help on this!
Jul 11, 2018, 6:46 am
#877
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London N8
Programs: BA (LTG), Miles&More (whatever the lowest level is), Oyster card (zones 1-2)
Posts: 891
I have a flight coming up MIA-LHR. It's AA ticketed, 001-stock, and AA flight number, but operated by BA. Would it be covered by EU261 (as it is BA metal) or not (as it is an American airlines ticket/flight number)?
I know outbounds from the UK are covered, but generally not AA inbounds to the UK.
I know outbounds from the UK are covered, but generally not AA inbounds to the UK.
Jul 11, 2018, 6:47 am
#878
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,600
I have a flight coming up MIA-LHR. It's AA ticketed, 001-stock, and AA flight number, but operated by BA. Would it be covered by EU261 (as it is BA metal) or not (as it is an American airlines ticket/flight number)?
I know outbounds from the UK are covered, but generally not AA inbounds to the UK.
I know outbounds from the UK are covered, but generally not AA inbounds to the UK.
Jul 11, 2018, 6:52 am
#879
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London N8
Programs: BA (LTG), Miles&More (whatever the lowest level is), Oyster card (zones 1-2)
Posts: 891
Thank you, that is a pleasant surprise.
Jul 11, 2018, 9:41 am
#880
Join Date: May 2016
Location: YKM, SEA
Programs: Alaska MVP
Posts: 57
My wife and I were on BA48 from SEA-LHR on June 27th. Due to inbound aircraft having an equipment change in LHR our flight boarded 4 hours late. We arrived in LHR just under hours late. That forced us to change our connection LHR-DUB. That connection was also delayed due to tech problem. Once we finally arrived at our destination we were 4.5 hours late in total. On June 29th I submitted a request for compensation using the BA website form. On July 9th we received an email acknowledging the delay and agreeing to deposit the 600 EUR each into our bank account within 10 business days. $1,400 USD for 2 people being 4.5 hours late sure is worth it. Thanks for having this thread with all the information we needed to get our compensation.
Just a quick follow up on this as a data reference. As stated we received approval of our claim on July 9th. The $1402 appeared in my bank account on July 11th.
Jul 12, 2018, 1:23 am
#881
Join Date: Nov 2009
Programs: qff, asia miles, amex, kvs
Posts: 50
You got to be kidding. After a 1 week of holiday in FI/Europe you ask for refund of the entire ticket claiming that your trip was in vain because you missed 36 hours at TYO? I can tell you that no sane judge will allow this - and more relevant EU reg. 261/04 does not entertain such refund as for your return flights the point of origin is HEL (rather than BNE).
Don't be silly - if you want AY to take your claim for comp. for cancellation serious, you should leave out the refund claim. It has absolutely no chance.
Don't be silly - if you want AY to take your claim for comp. for cancellation serious, you should leave out the refund claim. It has absolutely no chance.
For info,
Finnair responded after 5 weeks accepting the liability 600 euro for the delay.
I pressed them for a response to the reimbursement claim as it had been ignored but also offered to withdraw the claim for reimbursement for 50 euro per person without prejudice. (Ostensibly to cover our costs for the stopover that were not refundable). This was accepted by Finnair.
For the record I think the regulation is fairly clear as to the entitlement however it was not morally justifiable and I consider I was fortunate that the regulation exists to provide compensation at all. I think that Finnair may have considered that was the case otherwise I cannot see why they would have accepted without prejudice or not.
The total 650 euro pp.
Finnair responded after 5 weeks accepting the liability 600 euro for the delay.
I pressed them for a response to the reimbursement claim as it had been ignored but also offered to withdraw the claim for reimbursement for 50 euro per person without prejudice. (Ostensibly to cover our costs for the stopover that were not refundable). This was accepted by Finnair.
For the record I think the regulation is fairly clear as to the entitlement however it was not morally justifiable and I consider I was fortunate that the regulation exists to provide compensation at all. I think that Finnair may have considered that was the case otherwise I cannot see why they would have accepted without prejudice or not.
The total 650 euro pp.
Jul 16, 2018, 1:37 pm
#882
Join Date: Jul 2018
Programs: AA, BA, SAA, Hertz
Posts: 5
Hi all. Thanks for this fantastic resource. I'm currently "working with" BA regarding a flight from PHX-MUC on May 31, 2018.
We were initially delayed 4 hours getting off the ground in PHX on the PHX-LHR leg of the trip. This of course meant that we missed our connection in LHR. BA was able to get us on the last flight out of LHR that night so we boarded and then proceeded to sit on the runway for an hour. When we finally got airborne we were due to land in MUC at 12:45. All was well and we were descending on approach when the engines powered up and we turned away from the city and headed north. An hour later, we landed in Hannover at 1:45AM and sat on the tarmac while the crew figured out if there was anyone around to offload the plane. The tower in MUC had "assured" the pilot and BA that we would be able to land after the airport closed at 12:30 so the decision was made to take off from LHR!!! Too bad the shift changed and the replacement tower guy shut us down.
We got a hotel in Hannover (same one the crew was at) and slept for a couple hours after arriving there around 3:45am. Of course the crew timed out while in Hannover so they could not fly us until ~5pm the following day.
I finally got BA to pay for the costs of staying in Hannover but they are denying my claim under EC261.
The original delay was due to a baggage truck hitting the plane in PHX and BA is claiming that this is an extraordinary circumstance. I have brought up the following:
"The Court of Justice of the EU ruled in November 2014 in the case of Sandy Stewart and Others v Condor Flugdienst, Case C-394/14, that mobile boarding stairs colliding with an aircraft does not constitute “extraordinary circumstances” relieving the air carrier of its obligation to pay compensation for a flight delay of more than three hours."
But BA is basically ignoring me at this point.
I have also brought up the fact that they did not try to get a replacement crew to Hannover to get us back to MUC with any urgency, instead, they just let us wait around for the entire day.
Am I looking at CEDR or MCOL at this point? I've been back and forth with the online email system 4-5 times over the compensation and they have gone dark.
Thanks for any information you could share or advice to get this compensated. We are a family of 5 so it is not a small amount in total.
We were initially delayed 4 hours getting off the ground in PHX on the PHX-LHR leg of the trip. This of course meant that we missed our connection in LHR. BA was able to get us on the last flight out of LHR that night so we boarded and then proceeded to sit on the runway for an hour. When we finally got airborne we were due to land in MUC at 12:45. All was well and we were descending on approach when the engines powered up and we turned away from the city and headed north. An hour later, we landed in Hannover at 1:45AM and sat on the tarmac while the crew figured out if there was anyone around to offload the plane. The tower in MUC had "assured" the pilot and BA that we would be able to land after the airport closed at 12:30 so the decision was made to take off from LHR!!! Too bad the shift changed and the replacement tower guy shut us down.
We got a hotel in Hannover (same one the crew was at) and slept for a couple hours after arriving there around 3:45am. Of course the crew timed out while in Hannover so they could not fly us until ~5pm the following day.
I finally got BA to pay for the costs of staying in Hannover but they are denying my claim under EC261.
The original delay was due to a baggage truck hitting the plane in PHX and BA is claiming that this is an extraordinary circumstance. I have brought up the following:
"The Court of Justice of the EU ruled in November 2014 in the case of Sandy Stewart and Others v Condor Flugdienst, Case C-394/14, that mobile boarding stairs colliding with an aircraft does not constitute “extraordinary circumstances” relieving the air carrier of its obligation to pay compensation for a flight delay of more than three hours."
But BA is basically ignoring me at this point.
I have also brought up the fact that they did not try to get a replacement crew to Hannover to get us back to MUC with any urgency, instead, they just let us wait around for the entire day.
Am I looking at CEDR or MCOL at this point? I've been back and forth with the online email system 4-5 times over the compensation and they have gone dark.
Thanks for any information you could share or advice to get this compensated. We are a family of 5 so it is not a small amount in total.
Jul 16, 2018, 4:20 pm
#883
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: London
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Avis President's Club, BA GGL CCR, Amex Plat
Posts: 77
Thanks, I've not left anything out. I just don't get why they are saying 175min so asked for a full detailed breakdown as in previous replies ive given them all the exact flight numbers and even signed up to flightrader24 pro so I can get the landing times and I stated this yet they still say 175min delay only. oh and ive posted a pic of my boarding pass of my re-scheduled flight which they asked for yet they say its only a 175min delay.
is there anywhere that states they have to disprove the time I state, ill ask Iberia but doubt they will help.
I shall reply back again today stating it all out and see what they say.
is there anywhere that states they have to disprove the time I state, ill ask Iberia but doubt they will help.
I shall reply back again today stating it all out and see what they say.
glad i stuck in and didnt give up. Defo recommend not giving up and going all the way with BA.
thanks again all.
Jul 16, 2018, 6:21 pm
#884
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Programs: ►QFWP/LTG►VA WP►HyattExpl.►HiltonGold►ALL Silver
Posts: 21,994
want to say thanks to everyone for the advice that was given back in April. I went to cedr who took on my case. BA tried to claim that a delay of 14min caused by ATC for the flight before had caused my delay and that was extrodinary circumstances. In the wend went to an adjudicator who said BA have to pay.
glad i stuck in and didnt give up. Defo recommend not giving up and going all the way with BA.
thanks again all.
glad i stuck in and didnt give up. Defo recommend not giving up and going all the way with BA.
thanks again all.
It's a general provision of the Regulation - passengers get compensation unless x, y and z, not the other way around, and it's the airline's responsibility to do this. So if (e.g) you gave a statement of truth to MCOL saying "I arrived 3 hours 47 minutes late" (or whatever it was) then it's up to BA to say "no you didn't, you arrived at hh:mm". If there is a dispute on the facts - very rare in this area - then a judge makes the decision. In this case BA either have wrong information or can't count very accurately.
Personally I would simply re-state the facts and ask BA for an agreement to deadlock for CEDR purposes.
Personally I would simply re-state the facts and ask BA for an agreement to deadlock for CEDR purposes.
Jul 17, 2018, 12:51 am
#885
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,811
Depending on timings you may need a deadlock letter from BA but if they are not replying you can probably start CEDR anyway, it doesn't materially change the process, processing or outcome if you start now.