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I thought IAG was Spanish based

Irreverent Medusa

In the BBC article, it says Flights from the UK into and overflying the EU to be allowed for 12 months to ensure "basic connectivity".

Would anyone have an idea as to what "basic connectivity" means in terms of what percentage of flights would be flying? Somehow I can't see 100% of flights being operational with that description.

andrewr1985

The specific wording is:
A proposal for a Regulation to ensure temporarily, for 12 months, the provision of certain air services between the United Kingdom and the EU27 Member States, allowing air carriers from the United Kingdom to fly across the territory of the Union without landing, make stops in the territory of the Union for non-traffic purposes, and perform scheduled and non-scheduled international passenger and cargo air transport services. This is subject to the United Kingdom conferring equivalent rights to air carriers from the Union, as well as to the United Kingdom ensuring conditions of fair competition.

A proposal for a Regulation regarding aviation safety to extend temporarily, for 9 months, the validity of certain existing licences, to address the specific situation in the aviation safety sector where the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) can only issue certain certificates on the basis of a licence issued in a third country, while the United Kingdom can only issue licences as of the withdrawal date, when it has regained the status of "State of design".

The wording is very specific to "certain" services and licenses but also pretty vague at the same time!

Worcester

FT is casting doubt on IAG's plans for Brexit

https://www.ft.com/content/35ff12b0-...1-4ff78404524e

corporate-wage-slave

And it is the lead story in today's Financial Times (Wednesday 9 January 2019):



Extract:
This refers to the cunning wheeze that Iberia is owned by the Spanish retail conglomerate El Cortes Inglés (ironic naming being what it is), and that BA is really a subsidiary of a mysterious English charity. Lex on the back page says a sense of proportion is necessary, that the turbulence to sterling probably more important to IAG than ownership questions, but ends: "Expect more flight anxiety to come".

Mutu

By the same logic then Ryanair would only be able to fly UK EU ex UK unless it is majority British owned and controlled. Similarly Norwegian on non UK EU routes?
Or will we / have we relax ownership rules unilaterally

Jerseylily2

Seriously, how worried should those of us with EU to UK BA bookings post 29th March be?

Ldnn1

pauldb

Not very worried. This recent press is about whether IB (and Vueling, Level) are really EU airlines and can therefore fly around the EU.

The EU have already provisioned that under No-Deal UK airlines can fly to the EU for 12 months so BA to the EU will be OK, and there's little doubt the UK will reciprocate for EU airlines flying here. Technically BA's UK nationality could be challenged, but that would defeat the aim of the temporary provision so I would think it unlikely to have a rapid impact.

I'm still more worried, for BA, about a different non-EU destination such as the US challenging whether BA is British and can therefore fly UK-US under a bilateral (a challenge driven by Delta for example).

Worcester

We can't unilaterally do that as it is based on (IMO rather outdated) treaty called the Chicago Convention, which set out the rules for international air travel.

https://centreforaviation.com/analys...nduring-345816

Nothing is ever simple.

tinkicker

UK government position about ownership rules has for a very long time been on the "relaxed" end and post Brexit I suspect the UK may wish to become completely relaxed, problem is everyone else isn't relaxed and as such the UK will have to comply with the wishes of the big players in the market...which would be the EU and the US.

However, it's not just IAG, it ripples across a variety of carriers. For example without the UK Shareholders some reports (admittedly from last year) suggest Ryanair has about 35% EU ownership. This from Ryan's own website

Only another 3 months to go.

flatlander

"Certain" in this sort of legislation is very common, to avoid saying "All licenses/carriers (in this case)" but also to avoid issuing a regulation with a fixed list of carriers that is hard to modify later. The UK uses this too in regulation and law (with a different phrasing).

Obviously, making sure your carrier is on the list is important for each carrier and the country the carrier operates from, but that's separate from establishing the principle that there is a list and how long it is effective for, which is the purpose of this regulation.

corporate-wage-slave

Slightly concerned, but not too much so. The official HMG line is here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...no-brexit-deal

though it's already out of date, but in a broadly positive way, the Commission has said there will be 9 month period regardless where very little will change even in the hardest of No Deal scenarios. Moreover, as someone who moves somewhat as a very small cog in a vast wheel in this area, my increasing hunch is that within the next 2 weeks the end game will be upon us, and it may even be sooner - judging from what I've seen this morning.

Mutu

But not ownership rules. My point is, if its a big issue for IAG it is then also a big issue for other carriers. And in a no deal world, carriers would need to be British controlled to enjoy UK bilateral rights. So my point stands. It just seems the press are picking up on IAg and not on others who may be impacted

Irreverent Medusa

Probably not as worried as those of us EU nationals who live in the UK... I have a return BA flight LCY-NCE booked for just after Easter and I have no idea whether I will be able to go or not, even just for 4 days to see the parents, because as things stand I have no guarantees that I'll be allowed back into the UK, the country I've been living in perfectly legally and in good faith for nearly 26 years

I've also not yet booked my September holiday flights. I usually gor for 2 one-way RFS bookings to be able to change the return date after flying the outbound but I don't really fancy paying 2 sets of fees if I have to cancel, so currently keeping an eye on RFS availability but holding off booking.