Babies in First Lounges
Dec 25, 2017, 2:32 pm
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sydney Australia
Programs: No programs & No Points!!!
Posts: 14,222
Been on the Christmas sherry, my dear?
Rather interesting that you choose to resurrect a thread from a few months ago but don’t have anything to add. Any personal experience you want to get off you chest?
If you don’t like the idea of traveling with babies I suggest you get yourself a private jet.
Dec 26, 2017, 3:16 am
#49
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Glasgow and Asia
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hotels.com Gold
Posts: 510
My view is (from someone that doesn't have any children) that children get excited and make noise. Children get tired and make noise. If I hear a kid screaming, I simply put on my noise cancelling headphones and listen to music or watch film. Or I stick in some earplugs and then my NC headphones and ignore. I don't see what the problem is in lounges and I would welcome kids in.
Almost all parent/s I see with kids try their best to comfort their children and keep the noise to a minimum.
The only caveat is the parent that allows their kid to run around screaming while they ignore it. But that is an issue I would have with the attitude of the parent, not to be annoyed at the child in that case.
Almost all parent/s I see with kids try their best to comfort their children and keep the noise to a minimum.
The only caveat is the parent that allows their kid to run around screaming while they ignore it. But that is an issue I would have with the attitude of the parent, not to be annoyed at the child in that case.
Dec 26, 2017, 3:33 am
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,547
Totally unrelated to the question of children but the thing is that whilst this works perfectly well to avoid any specific noise if you indeed intend to stay awake by watching a film or listening to music, if you do not intend to do either thing, noise cancelling headphones are actually really counter-productive against specific noise (people talking, snoring etc) without noise as they cancel ambient noise and really make specific noises clearer. Of course, they are also totally useless if you are trying to sleep.
Dec 26, 2017, 7:22 am
#51
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Arizona
Programs: BA (GGL G4L), AA (Gold), HH (Diamond); Marriott (Gold)
Posts: 3,011
Totally unrelated to the question of children but the thing is that whilst this works perfectly well to avoid any specific noise if you indeed intend to stay awake by watching a film or listening to music, if you do not intend to do either thing, noise cancelling headphones are actually really counter-productive against specific noise (people talking, snoring etc) without noise as they cancel ambient noise and really make specific noises clearer. Of course, they are also totally useless if you are trying to sleep.
Dec 26, 2017, 2:02 pm
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,547
I really couldn't.
Dec 28, 2017, 5:51 am
#53
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: Marriott Rewards Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 73
I find this topic fascinating
It’s something the wife and I discussed a lot prior to traveling with our young ones, and continue to discuss when we see others traveling.
As many have pointed out the range of behaviors here is broad, but as a general rule, children are children and are still learning how,to cope and behave in new and varied circumstances. Those coping mechanisms develop at different rates based on child and parenting, but it’s fairly safe to say that an infant/child under the age of 18 months is going to be a challenge in an pressurized metal tube, stuffed with people, 35,000 feet above the earth. If your 18 month old (or younger) child is not, you are the exception, not the norm.
There's been a lot said in this thread along the lines of “we paid for our ticket so we’ll go where we please”. An interesting point and somewhat reflective of the times we live in. Every other passenger / customer has also paid for their ticket ... so what rights does that presume? Who is the arbiter of when one passenger’s freedom imposes upon another passenger’s right to enjoy their experience? While everyone has paid to be on board, the interior of an aircraft is still a public space in that behavioral norms are *not* whatever you would like to do (if you were in your own home, for example). Behavior such as trimming one’s toenails, flatulence, taking off your shirt, putting your hand down your pants (or whatever other “interesting” things people might do at home) are obviously not considered acceptable on a plane. Or said more succinctly, no, you cannot do whatever you want just because you paid for your ticket.
i guess the question I would ask is this: if you are the parent of a young child or infant who you know is either not able to behave or is particularly poorly behaved ... would you take them to a $12 movie that lasted 3 hours if you knew that you had to remain in the theatre if they began to misbehave, ruining the experience for your fellow theater goers (who’ve all paid to be there just like you)? I sincerely hope the answer to this question is ”No”. If not, then perhaps some introspection is in order? By extension, a 3+ hour flight for which some have paid $800, some have paid $2,400 and some have paid with miles is no place for a child that is either unable to behave or chronically misbehaves. It presumes that your “at home” behavior is suitable for public consumption. It is not, though we live in a culture today that increasingly ignores such respect and comportment in favor of “well, I paid for it, I can do what I please.”
This is the reason that my wife and I chose not to travel with our little ones until they reached a sufficient age so as to be well behaved. This ended up being three different ages, as not all three developed at the same pace. Was this inconvenient? Absolutely. But on many levels it was the right thing to do - for us, for them, and for others.
As many people aren’t having children today, I often wonder how people without children look at parents who bring their uncontrollable infant/child into public spaces, After all while the parents have made a choice to procreate, people without children did not, and while a sense of shared responsibility is desirable (it takes a village) it should not be presumed, nor is it compulsory and we ought not to treat it as such.
As many have pointed out the range of behaviors here is broad, but as a general rule, children are children and are still learning how,to cope and behave in new and varied circumstances. Those coping mechanisms develop at different rates based on child and parenting, but it’s fairly safe to say that an infant/child under the age of 18 months is going to be a challenge in an pressurized metal tube, stuffed with people, 35,000 feet above the earth. If your 18 month old (or younger) child is not, you are the exception, not the norm.
There's been a lot said in this thread along the lines of “we paid for our ticket so we’ll go where we please”. An interesting point and somewhat reflective of the times we live in. Every other passenger / customer has also paid for their ticket ... so what rights does that presume? Who is the arbiter of when one passenger’s freedom imposes upon another passenger’s right to enjoy their experience? While everyone has paid to be on board, the interior of an aircraft is still a public space in that behavioral norms are *not* whatever you would like to do (if you were in your own home, for example). Behavior such as trimming one’s toenails, flatulence, taking off your shirt, putting your hand down your pants (or whatever other “interesting” things people might do at home) are obviously not considered acceptable on a plane. Or said more succinctly, no, you cannot do whatever you want just because you paid for your ticket.
i guess the question I would ask is this: if you are the parent of a young child or infant who you know is either not able to behave or is particularly poorly behaved ... would you take them to a $12 movie that lasted 3 hours if you knew that you had to remain in the theatre if they began to misbehave, ruining the experience for your fellow theater goers (who’ve all paid to be there just like you)? I sincerely hope the answer to this question is ”No”. If not, then perhaps some introspection is in order? By extension, a 3+ hour flight for which some have paid $800, some have paid $2,400 and some have paid with miles is no place for a child that is either unable to behave or chronically misbehaves. It presumes that your “at home” behavior is suitable for public consumption. It is not, though we live in a culture today that increasingly ignores such respect and comportment in favor of “well, I paid for it, I can do what I please.”
This is the reason that my wife and I chose not to travel with our little ones until they reached a sufficient age so as to be well behaved. This ended up being three different ages, as not all three developed at the same pace. Was this inconvenient? Absolutely. But on many levels it was the right thing to do - for us, for them, and for others.
As many people aren’t having children today, I often wonder how people without children look at parents who bring their uncontrollable infant/child into public spaces, After all while the parents have made a choice to procreate, people without children did not, and while a sense of shared responsibility is desirable (it takes a village) it should not be presumed, nor is it compulsory and we ought not to treat it as such.
Last edited by dhodory; Dec 28, 2017 at 9:57 am
Dec 28, 2017, 7:26 am
#54
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
Programs: Hilton HHonors Diamond,Bonvoy Platinum,Shangri-La Golden Circle Jade,LH SEN,AZ Gold,VS Elevate Gold
Posts: 134
the otherwise ghastly Aspire lounge at MAN T1 has been (virtually) divided into a grown up area and a kids' area - on the right as you enter there is a little play pen etc., on the left it's all serious boozers at 7 am (don't get me started).
on the subject of kids' behaviour during travel, nothing will erase from my mind the memory of a VIE-BKK flight many years ago, in F, with me lying awake in 1A and a toddler spending ALL NIGHT running squealing between 2A where her mamma was, and 4A where her papa was.
for 8 long hours, felt like 18.
I could have gladly murdered BOTH parents.
on the subject of kids' behaviour during travel, nothing will erase from my mind the memory of a VIE-BKK flight many years ago, in F, with me lying awake in 1A and a toddler spending ALL NIGHT running squealing between 2A where her mamma was, and 4A where her papa was.
for 8 long hours, felt like 18.
I could have gladly murdered BOTH parents.
Dec 28, 2017, 9:09 am
#55
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 146
BA and families with young kids and babies is a bit like oil and water, they don’t mix.
In in my experience BA are not family friendly and the sight of my kids in premium cabins over the years and in the Concorde room had caused a variety of responses. From the downright hostile to the much rarer welcome. In 15 years of flying with my kids I have never felt comfortable and only Cathay and Qantas dealt with kids superbly. I flew F SIN to HKG on CX and forgot I had small children! Qantas were also exceptional but BA have been mediocre at best.
it my view it stems from their rather outdated internal policy of banning all kids of staff from F till they are 12. This includes the CEO and chairman. It’s a Dickensian approach but I have no doubt it influences heavily the thinking of staff at all levels.
for me it’s public transport and if you pay to be in a premium cabin, have status, or are following the rules then babes in arms and kids of all ages are welcome.
In in my experience BA are not family friendly and the sight of my kids in premium cabins over the years and in the Concorde room had caused a variety of responses. From the downright hostile to the much rarer welcome. In 15 years of flying with my kids I have never felt comfortable and only Cathay and Qantas dealt with kids superbly. I flew F SIN to HKG on CX and forgot I had small children! Qantas were also exceptional but BA have been mediocre at best.
it my view it stems from their rather outdated internal policy of banning all kids of staff from F till they are 12. This includes the CEO and chairman. It’s a Dickensian approach but I have no doubt it influences heavily the thinking of staff at all levels.
for me it’s public transport and if you pay to be in a premium cabin, have status, or are following the rules then babes in arms and kids of all ages are welcome.
Your experience could not be any further apart from our experience travelling with our (Now 9 year old) daughter. The care from BA staff has been nothing short of exemplary from when she was 15 months old. It is one of the reasons we keep flying with BA. Oh and she has her log book which has been kept since she first flew and she has now done over 150,000 miles with BA.
Dec 28, 2017, 11:59 am
#56
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Programs: BA Silver - hard drop from GGL :( SPG Gold, Hilton Diamond, AC E50k
Posts: 567
Binman
Your experience could not be any further apart from our experience travelling with our (Now 9 year old) daughter. The care from BA staff has been nothing short of exemplary from when she was 15 months old. It is one of the reasons we keep flying with BA. Oh and she has her log book which has been kept since she first flew and she has now done over 150,000 miles with BA.
Your experience could not be any further apart from our experience travelling with our (Now 9 year old) daughter. The care from BA staff has been nothing short of exemplary from when she was 15 months old. It is one of the reasons we keep flying with BA. Oh and she has her log book which has been kept since she first flew and she has now done over 150,000 miles with BA.
Dec 29, 2017, 3:19 am
#57
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: AA EXP/LTP, BA GGL/CCR/GfL, HH D/LTD, SPG/MR Plat/LTP
Posts: 10,076
This little story is bordering on the OT side. I was scanning BA threads on p2, when Cost Source #1 stepped up behind my back to see what I was up to.
"Do they get that in lounges?" he rightfully questioned, pointing at the screen, where some dust distorted the first letter of this thread, reading as "Rabies in First Lounges". "Its not that serious, for most of us", I said, "but then again it might be for some"
May thefroth force be with you.
"Do they get that in lounges?" he rightfully questioned, pointing at the screen, where some dust distorted the first letter of this thread, reading as "Rabies in First Lounges". "Its not that serious, for most of us", I said, "but then again it might be for some"
May the
Dec 29, 2017, 3:58 am
#58
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 774
Dec 29, 2017, 5:24 am
#59
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Programs: AVIS presidents club, BA GGL, HH Diamond, Marriott Platinum Elite
Posts: 278
My friend and I met up with friends at Gatwick the other day. Two of them plus their baby were in Galleries Club and we decided to move across to the First lounge.
As we moved across I asked the podium agent if it would be ok to guest them in, and he pulled a bit of a face and eventually said that the First lounge was "a quieter lounge" and that with the baby the Club lounge might be more suitable, but that "it's up to you". I'm not sure there's any way to avoid that being awkward, but he wasn't cool about it at all.
My friend holding the baby was clearly very uncomfortable. We went into F Lounge and the child didn't make a sound.
I thought it was unprofessional. These parents would have taken their child out of ANY lounge if she was making a disturbance. But regardless I'm not sure a Gold card or F seat means you have a greater claim on a public space than a Silver cardholder in J.
But really I'm wondering if the agent was enacting some unwritten BA policy here? In which case seems to me they should just change the rules. Or whether he was acting unilaterally? Thoughts welcome.
Thanks
As we moved across I asked the podium agent if it would be ok to guest them in, and he pulled a bit of a face and eventually said that the First lounge was "a quieter lounge" and that with the baby the Club lounge might be more suitable, but that "it's up to you". I'm not sure there's any way to avoid that being awkward, but he wasn't cool about it at all.
My friend holding the baby was clearly very uncomfortable. We went into F Lounge and the child didn't make a sound.
I thought it was unprofessional. These parents would have taken their child out of ANY lounge if she was making a disturbance. But regardless I'm not sure a Gold card or F seat means you have a greater claim on a public space than a Silver cardholder in J.
But really I'm wondering if the agent was enacting some unwritten BA policy here? In which case seems to me they should just change the rules. Or whether he was acting unilaterally? Thoughts welcome.
Thanks
Dec 31, 2017, 5:44 pm
#60
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: LHR & JER
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 253
Having just spent the evening in the JFK GF lounge next to a family with young kids, I have to say they were perfect. Completely quiet and under control. Especially next to the late teens kinds next to them complaining loudly that the Oreos were too warm (a little DYKWIA)!!!
I think that it's unfair for staff to assume that kids will be a disruption and therefore should always give the benefit of the doubt. You can always turf someone out if anything goes badly wrong.
I think that it's unfair for staff to assume that kids will be a disruption and therefore should always give the benefit of the doubt. You can always turf someone out if anything goes badly wrong.