IAN-UK

No expert me, but I think a seat incorrectly positioned for take-off and landing has safety implications for those in the seat(s) behind, as well as for the occupant.

V10

Possibly in cattle class, but I guess wouldn't be a consideration in club world.

I'm frankly baffled at BA's complete intransigence here, given how significantly it has failed cxbonne both contractually and potentially with regards to safety.

orbitmic

So in effect, if BA had paid you what you wanted upon your return, you would have considered yourself safe and let it pass, but because they did not, you retrospectively consider that your safety was at risk and denounced them as unsafe to regulatory authorities? I'm sure that there is a logical link there somehow but I am not intuitively seeing it.

In my own case, if I felt that a specific seat issue made me unsafe with no offer of an alternative, I would refuse to fly. If I considered that the seat was dysfunctional (of course 'slight recline' could mean many different things) I would fly and might, like you ask for compensation. If that compensation did not come, I might be 'commercially' upset, but I would not go back to my earlier judgement and make a regulatory complaint on safety grounds.

Again I don't disagree with you on the commercial issue. It is the notion that safety risks can be 'bought' which I disagree with.

710 77345

I think it's more to do with how seriously it's taken. If I'd been on the flight and BA had come to me to apologise, offer compensation that I would actually notice (which needn't be excessively expensive) and say they'd taken steps to try and stop this happening again then I'd be happy and let things drop.

If they came to me and said that yes, the seat you'd paid £80 to reserve + an expensive ticket was broken, so the advertised flat bed wasn't available - but here is a £40 voucher you can use to save money on a future flight I'd be really disappointed and angry as they hadn't taken the problem seriously.

Different people will do different things - loss of a bed on a long flight would be a fairly straightforward thing to get significant compensation for though a small claims action, but involves paying a filing fee and being prepared to take a day off work. Emailing your safety concerns to the regulatory authority will also impact BA significantly but not take up much of the affected passenger's time.

Experienced FTers who have seen BA not take safety complaints so seriously recently (such as the missing seat cushion debacle) might always complain to the regulators, but regular passengers would assume that a complaint to the airline would get things moving internally.

corporate-wage-slave

cxbonne has reported that s/he is angry about this, and in that situation it's understandable if they approach it from all angles and all arguments, so that would include the safety aspect. I've no idea how that will play up in terms of DOT's stance on the issue, it may give good visibility to the complaint. The risk I guess is that if that issue is then dismissed by BA (e.g. because it was within the range of acceptability for ingress/egress) then the underlying complaint may get sunk with it. I've no idea what is the best approach, however it probably would be best if the cxbonne doesn't rely on that point alone, but equally understanding and using the different channels available is a good idea.

orbitmic

I totally agree with you on the frustration that comes with feeling ignored and that BA are not taking the complain seriously. Again, commercially, this is indefensible. It is just that in that context, the safety complaint feels, for lack of a better word, a bit 'vengeful'.

Beyond my thoughts on the safety complaint, my other fear for the OP is that this would largely stop any commercial/customer recovery procedure. My point of reference is what happens when a customer who is unhappy with a customer service resolution threatens to start legal proceedings. Instructions are then clearly for the customer service team to stop communication and let the legal team handle it. I would be worried that similarly, in the context of a regulatory complaint, customer service would be instructed to not take any further initiative as there is always a risk that offering compensation could be construed as an admission of guilt.

The OP mentions that when told about the seat's inability to return to fully upright position, since the J cabin was full, the FA offered the passenger to move to an empty Y seat for landing. In that sense the only possible ground for safety infringement would be that the FA did not actually oblige the passenger to move in such a way. My sense is that with the OP's references to the 'slightness' of the issue, this is unlikely to go anywhere but I am no safety expert. Either way, I expect that any hope of further customer service resolution at this stage following the regulatory procedure is chimeric.

710 77345

The end of the road has been reached with customer services - they are not going to offer more than a $50 travel voucher.

The safety issue may not be so slight - if the safe for landing light was not on, then it's serious. If the safe light was on, then there's no case.

It's not just a case of entry/egress - it's about what the seat is certified for, which is why it's possible for seats to be 'too upright' for landing, even though it gives more space for the passenger to escape.
There's also the issue that although this passenger might have been happy to take the very slim risk of a crash, the way the CW seats are built are such that a failure could impact his neighbours.

Time to take the lack of a flat bed to court - I'd be claiming for the additional cost over and above a WTP ticket.

PUCCI GALORE

Exactly - the fact that he has, does not make everyone follow suit. All I can say from my observations is that "swathes" have come to replace them. If I were to believe everything that I read here, there would not be a BA Forum as the airline would have no one left to comment on anything.

As it so happens I agree with the OP about charging for allocated seating. However, my teddies are not leaving the pram over that if I were not Gold as I am aware of and accept that this is the situation whether I like it or not.

I accept also that to some people for whatever reason have a thing about BA. They can do nothing right. Fine. Then why go on spending money with them? I wouldn't - not if it was my money rather than someone else's. Him Indoors does what he's told and he can complain all he likes only he knows the my threshold of boredom is far too easily accessed.

Actually, I liked your mini-trip report Mr OP - it was short, to the point, and devoid of photos of whatever has been put in front of you (or in one ghastly instance of corridors, jetways, and lavatories). I did not have to wade through pages of tedious details (actually I've stopped as they took far too much time that I can never replace) and it gave praise where praise was due.

I'm almost tempted to award you a Mucci.

mtdd

Thank you for these comments. Actually, I probably did overreact over the seat allocation issue, but this was to be a very special trip, a present for my wife and travelling in F which we haven't done since 1985 (at least on a decent airline), and I still feel that if you have booked in a premium cabin you should not be charged to choose your seat - whether it is BA or any other airline, and whatever the colour of your luggage tag.

I only have a thing about BA when I have a bad experience with it. Also as with any other airline...

And I am glad you liked my mini report! It was actually a fabulous trip, and the good bits by far eclipsed the niggles over the seat allocation and the centre seat on the 787 which admittedly I hated.

I am almost tempted to ask what a Mucci is, but I hesitate.....

mikeyfly

This'll tell you nothing but explains something..

Utterly and Totally OT and OTT (again!) The New Year's Honour' List (MUCCI)

V10

You're nobody if you've not been bestowed with a Mucci.

Regards,

Nobody

PS was the last list really in 2015?

HilFly

The definitive thread.

MUCCI Roll Call

PUCCI GALORE

Ask away Dear - there are scads of threads over all these years - more than on probably anything remotely sensible. It is not a clique, but it is awarded to those that amuse or interest me and is actually not of my making.

So arise Sir mtdd - Mucci des galantries nuptuelles.

OK - V10 - you've been around long enough and never actually bored or exasperated me - you're a MUCCI Gold. This will get you entry into absolutely nowhere and provide you with no upgrades whatsoever.

Don't forget to update your profiles. I will be watching.

smokie36

I can't really see how you can be unhappy with any Club World seat on BA.

Its perfectly decent and no need to spend money on seat reservations.

mikeyfly

An E/F seat as a solo passenger really is a pretty poor seat overnight. Yes, it’s a CW seat but it’s not decent if there’s a stranger next to you