Jagboi

Absolutely. It was in one of their investor presentations ( I think) that the short haul European network couldn't survive without connecting traffic.

Andriyko

So, when we are presented with the fact that BA services are more popular than AA ones, you still insist that AA is objectively better? Sounds to me like your personal subjective opinion. Apparently flat bed = flat bed is true for many people who choose BA. But you're right that there is a difference between AA and BA as the latter offers pre-flight dining, quick dinner service/express option for those who want to eat onboard and does not wake you up 90 minutes before landing.

choosethedrew

Surely they can sort the wash bags, duvets and meals in less than a year across the network though? Or if they can't, cease marketing them so hard? I don't see other airlines trumpeting soft improvements a year before their widespread introduction...

PJSMITH0

It's all about perception. I actually like the CW seat and much prefer the BA experience over the AA one. The criticism of the CW seat can seem a little biased because I have found that generally people posting on here are far likely to be complaining about BA and this slants opinion to believe that the CW seat is unpopular whereas in the the real world I very rarely see a less than 90% full cabin and considering that BA have added even more seats to the 747 the general public must be happy to fly in them.

T8191

"Tend to Agree"

They seem like simple tasks, but what do I know? As to the marketing/trumpeting, I suspect BA needs a few positives to counteract the recent negativity (IT, Strikes, BoB). And when something is late, or not as good as hoped-for, many will have forgotten the what/when announcements

We are all different ... give me the AA J seat [1-2-1 config] over the BA one [2-4-2] any day

As to 90% full cabins, many factors will affect that [including route/season]. The LGW 777 J cabins will certainly be full, as they reduce from 40/48 to 32 seats.

apollo00

Well, I consider the BA seat objectively better than AA which is cramped around the feet and I find considerably less conducive to sleeping soundly. I also know multiple other people that mention this aspect so it's not unique to me.

My point - it absolutely *is* personal preference which you find best.

I'd also say that, if you can sleep relatively well for 6 hours, most flat beds are equal on a TATL. Some are better than others and we will all have our own preferences but sleep is sleep and that's the purpose of the seat. Argue about the rest of product at your leisure.

Ber2dca

This thread is about the seat and on that front AA is objectively better than CW. I say that as someone who has no special allegiance to either BA or AA and is thus more qualified to discuss the matter than people who have emotional or professional relationships with one of those airlines.

BA has significant advantages over AA on a few fronts and I never suggested BA can't put people on its planes. It can be argued that BA is living off a reputation that was build 10-20 years ago and who knows how long that will last. But, of course, as a quasi monopolist in the UK as far as long-haul air travel is concerned, BA will be able to get people on its planes as long as Brits want/need to fly to other places far away.

As far as I can see BA management's view - and yours - is 'we're golden now so we don't need to innovate and improve'. The customer as the dumb cash cow..can't see that going wrong in the long run.

apollo00

I'm not clear on what 'objective' criteria you're basing this on. Perhaps if you outlined these it would be easier to see your point.

Both have advantages and disadvantages. AA has better storage and more upper body space, BA have more space around the legs and feet when sleeping particularly. You can argue a score draw on privacy depending on the seat and AA have the advantage that all seats are consistent whereas BA tends to have 'good' and 'bad' options on all aircraft.

I can say with certainty having flown 10+ sectors on each in the last 12 months that I sleep better on BA than AA and a portion of this is the seat does not suit my natural sleeping position on AA. This does not make it objectively better as others will, I'm sure, have a different experience.

What it does mean is that saying one is 'objectively' better than the other based on your personal experience and criteria isn't really objective.

Cap'n Benj

I am similar in that I have no preference and the advantages that BA still have over AA, at this time, are

Pre-flight dining/ Sleeper service
No foot coffin

The second I can put up with, the first I will not and therefore will always book a BA service Eastbound over night.

Westbound AA prob just about wins out for the extra space around the seat but schedule would win out over any inconvenience

HIDDY

Indeed. ^

CW sucks...IB J blows it out the water.

Ber2dca

A 1-2-1 featuring direct aisle access, the guarantee of sitting in the direction of travel and the possibility of being on your own is by default better.

Club World seating may - depending on seat assignment - force you to travel sitting 'backwards', step over someone else/have someone else step over you, feel the body warmth of a stranger on you, endure awkwardness with privacy dividers, have food being served 'over' you.

Perhaps some find the 'foot cubicles' weird on the AA (and similar) seats but objectively it does not outweigh the various factors listed above. That doesn't mean it couldn't *subjectively* be such a big deal to you that you *subjectively* prefer CW over those seats. That's your opinion and perhaps it's genuinely felt that way by a small number of travelers. I think however that a lot of people simply have so much tied up in BA - by status/being forced by work to travel BA/emotional attachment - that they talk CW pretty to themselves.

FlyerTalker39574

How much influence do the big corporate clients have on say LHR-NYC?

Are corporate clients more interested in the bottom line £/$ or how well the product suits their staff?

subject2load

Perfect summary of the reasons why alternative J class options have become so much more attractive to me than BA's outdated long-haul product.

Andriyko

There are a lot of 'I' in this assessment, so I am not sure how it can be objective. You may think that it is objective but it is nothing more than a personal opinion. The thread is about 'J product' if I read the title correctly, which includes many elements. Pointing out that, for example, BA flights are more in demand that AA flights can be taken as confirmation that CW is liked and that it sells. This may be one of the reasons why BA is in no hurry to replace the current seat. I assume you dismiss any possibility that people may actually like the CW seat because you objectively think that it is inferior to other airlines' seat. I do not dismiss any possibility or explanation; all I do is look at what people prefer and pay for. Of course, it is possible that CW sells not just because (or even despite) the seat design and it is the overall package that attracts passengers, but it would answer the question as to why BA is in no hurry to update the seat. What difference does it make to AA that you personally and subjectively think that its seat is better if passengers still prefer BA? What commercial sense would it make for an airline to update the seat when the cabin is liked as it is? I believe BA knows that the seat is in need of an update and one is coming in a year or two anyway?

OK, so the objective criteria are those defined by you? And what others may find weird or dislike are their subjective opinions and nothing more? These are your personal opinion and preferences. Nothing more. Everyone has their own criteria by which they judge a seat or the class of travel overall. If you think AA seat is better that's fine. Many here do. I like the seat as well (I don't think it's better or worse) but I sleep well on both.

the_real_a

The danger for BA in my opinion is the recognition that we are now in a "boom" period and thus it will not be too long before the next recession. Failing to invest during the boom periods has been the downfall of many company - investing on new CW now whilst IAG is turning a £1bn profit is inherently sensible, its much more difficult to invest in CW when you are making £1-300m loss each year for 5 years - and by the end of the next recession who knows which airlines will be left standing.