BA asked me for my opinion after a recent flight. Here is what I wrote.
Jul 4, 2017, 10:47 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cramerton, NC, USA
Programs: KLM Flying Blue Lifetime Platinum Elite, AA Gold, Delta MM Silver
Posts: 80
BA asked me for my opinion after a recent flight. Here is what I wrote.
Last week I took four British Airways (BA) flights between London Heathrow (LHR) and other destinations. I had flown American Airlines (AA) from Charlotte (CLT) to London Heathrow and continued to Brussels (BRU) with BA, then flew from Brussels to Leeds Bradford (LBA) via London, and eventually flew from Leeds Bradford back to London to connect to American Airlines to fly back to Charlotte. I flew British Airways economy on all intra-European sectors, and all those flights were shorter than an hour.
All the BA flights left and arrived more or less on time, and we did not have any technical or BA employee strike related delays or issues. When I checked my bags, they arrived in good order and nothing was damaged or stolen. In short, there was nothing special, remarkable or memorable that made using the BA brand a positive experience. Which is a problem for BA.
And that is because the only things that did stand out were negatives with the BA product experience itself. First, there is the legroom. It is bad. I am not an extremely tall person (I am 6ft, or 1m83), yet my knees were against the seat in front of me. Had I splurged on Business Class, my situation would not have improved, as BA use the exact same seat, seat pitch and seat width in economy and business (in a 3-3 set up on their Airbus aircraft – their short haul work horse). The only difference in business is that the middle seat is blocked, and doubles as a kind of table.
The other difference between business and economy is the food and beverage service. In business BA serve a full compliment of food and beverage. But in economy, BA have gone completely “Ryanair” on its customers. Simply put, the only way you are going to eat or drink something is if you buy it. BA have introduced a product offering in partnership with Marks & Spencer’s, and the offering looks pretty tasty, but also seriously overpriced. And everything, even the traditional cup of British tea, will now cost you.
If you ask, you can get a glass of water in a plastic cup. If you ask really nice, they might put in some ice for you (as I had to do as the water was definitely not chilled). But that is it.
I have no objection to Ultra Low Cost Carriers. I don’t use them often because I don’t like their product, and their airports and flight times often do not work for my business purposes. But I have used them on occasion and I knew what I was getting myself into because I had made a conscious choice.
With British Airways however, because of the brand name and long-standing marketing relationship between BA and “Britishness”, my expectations were very different from what I experienced in reality. And that creates, at least for me, a dislike.
The BA logo and brand equity still carry, rightly or wrongly, an aura of sophistication, elegance and “old world service”. I think this is what people expect, or perhaps anticipate, or perhaps think they buy into when booking BA. Instead, the flying experience is in nothing differentiating BA from its Low Cost Carrier (LCC) competition Ryanair, EasyJet, Jet2, WOW, WIZZ, Vueling or GermanWings.
Some of these LCC’s are actually owned by legacye carriers. Vueling is owned by BA parent IAG (as is Iberia) and GermanWings is owned by Lufthansa. But with those carriers, you know you are on a different airline altogether; you are not expecting Lufthansa service on a GermanWings plane.
But the question is what this disconnect between perceived/anticipated brand experience and actual brand experience will do to the BA brand over time.
The marketing guru’s will tell you that former “flag carriers” are caught between a rock and a hard place. Passengers and many corporate accounts tend to choose on price first. But when booking for business, price is important, but schedule, connecting time and “plan B options” for when flights or meetings go wrong are equally important. Many companies have travel policies in place that prohibit employees from flying business on flights shorter than 6 hours. Some also have mandatory agreements with certain carriers in place, limiting the choice of airline. Some companies now even have corporate accounts with LCC’s like EasyJet (in Europe) or (in the US) Southwest Airlines.
It is a fact that BA has lost significant numbers of passengers to the LCC’s over the last decade; or perhaps put better: the LCC's have opened air travel for a class of traveler that did not exist before, and BA (and the other legacies) were not offering a product for them. First that hurt on short haul and now it is beginning to hurt on long haul (Norwegian Airlines anybody?).
BA’s answer (and that of many of its former flag carrying competitors) has been to try and cut in-flight service and cost and, as a result, become similar to LCC’s. What that is doing is to make the legacy brands less special, more commoditized and, I believe, therefore less competitive because the focus is now purely a price decision. "I am going to be in economy for 1 ~ 3 hours. What is the price point I am going to select to 'suffer'; who am I going to pay for my discomfort?" I think many people will, given they know it is going to be crappy, choose the absolute cheapest, because at least they can walk off the plane stiff and dehumanized in the knowledge they paid less than others.
US carriers have the same competitive problem, but have found a different solution, that is (for now) still a little awkward but probably in the long run better. Their response to the LCC’s has been to differentiate the price and product on board. You want the cheapest price: sure, we have basic economy with absolutely nothing included. You want full flexibility and service: buy premium economy or business (called “First” in the US).
If you buy a basic economy seat, you will know what you’re getting, or rather, what you're not getting (this will take a little time, as consumers are only beginning to learn about this new pricing offering this year). But it does not “demean” the brand name or brand reputation of say Delta or American because it isn’t the whole plane that has gone LCC Basic Economy like BA has done (I am not going to include United for now – they have different brand reputation challenges…).
I understand there are so many factors that come into play. And I also understand each brand has its haters and lovers. I just think that BA had better options for this fight, and that the strategy they chose is one that ultimately will make BA less competitive and appealing and not more.
All the BA flights left and arrived more or less on time, and we did not have any technical or BA employee strike related delays or issues. When I checked my bags, they arrived in good order and nothing was damaged or stolen. In short, there was nothing special, remarkable or memorable that made using the BA brand a positive experience. Which is a problem for BA.
And that is because the only things that did stand out were negatives with the BA product experience itself. First, there is the legroom. It is bad. I am not an extremely tall person (I am 6ft, or 1m83), yet my knees were against the seat in front of me. Had I splurged on Business Class, my situation would not have improved, as BA use the exact same seat, seat pitch and seat width in economy and business (in a 3-3 set up on their Airbus aircraft – their short haul work horse). The only difference in business is that the middle seat is blocked, and doubles as a kind of table.
The other difference between business and economy is the food and beverage service. In business BA serve a full compliment of food and beverage. But in economy, BA have gone completely “Ryanair” on its customers. Simply put, the only way you are going to eat or drink something is if you buy it. BA have introduced a product offering in partnership with Marks & Spencer’s, and the offering looks pretty tasty, but also seriously overpriced. And everything, even the traditional cup of British tea, will now cost you.
If you ask, you can get a glass of water in a plastic cup. If you ask really nice, they might put in some ice for you (as I had to do as the water was definitely not chilled). But that is it.
I have no objection to Ultra Low Cost Carriers. I don’t use them often because I don’t like their product, and their airports and flight times often do not work for my business purposes. But I have used them on occasion and I knew what I was getting myself into because I had made a conscious choice.
With British Airways however, because of the brand name and long-standing marketing relationship between BA and “Britishness”, my expectations were very different from what I experienced in reality. And that creates, at least for me, a dislike.
The BA logo and brand equity still carry, rightly or wrongly, an aura of sophistication, elegance and “old world service”. I think this is what people expect, or perhaps anticipate, or perhaps think they buy into when booking BA. Instead, the flying experience is in nothing differentiating BA from its Low Cost Carrier (LCC) competition Ryanair, EasyJet, Jet2, WOW, WIZZ, Vueling or GermanWings.
Some of these LCC’s are actually owned by legacye carriers. Vueling is owned by BA parent IAG (as is Iberia) and GermanWings is owned by Lufthansa. But with those carriers, you know you are on a different airline altogether; you are not expecting Lufthansa service on a GermanWings plane.
But the question is what this disconnect between perceived/anticipated brand experience and actual brand experience will do to the BA brand over time.
The marketing guru’s will tell you that former “flag carriers” are caught between a rock and a hard place. Passengers and many corporate accounts tend to choose on price first. But when booking for business, price is important, but schedule, connecting time and “plan B options” for when flights or meetings go wrong are equally important. Many companies have travel policies in place that prohibit employees from flying business on flights shorter than 6 hours. Some also have mandatory agreements with certain carriers in place, limiting the choice of airline. Some companies now even have corporate accounts with LCC’s like EasyJet (in Europe) or (in the US) Southwest Airlines.
It is a fact that BA has lost significant numbers of passengers to the LCC’s over the last decade; or perhaps put better: the LCC's have opened air travel for a class of traveler that did not exist before, and BA (and the other legacies) were not offering a product for them. First that hurt on short haul and now it is beginning to hurt on long haul (Norwegian Airlines anybody?).
BA’s answer (and that of many of its former flag carrying competitors) has been to try and cut in-flight service and cost and, as a result, become similar to LCC’s. What that is doing is to make the legacy brands less special, more commoditized and, I believe, therefore less competitive because the focus is now purely a price decision. "I am going to be in economy for 1 ~ 3 hours. What is the price point I am going to select to 'suffer'; who am I going to pay for my discomfort?" I think many people will, given they know it is going to be crappy, choose the absolute cheapest, because at least they can walk off the plane stiff and dehumanized in the knowledge they paid less than others.
US carriers have the same competitive problem, but have found a different solution, that is (for now) still a little awkward but probably in the long run better. Their response to the LCC’s has been to differentiate the price and product on board. You want the cheapest price: sure, we have basic economy with absolutely nothing included. You want full flexibility and service: buy premium economy or business (called “First” in the US).
If you buy a basic economy seat, you will know what you’re getting, or rather, what you're not getting (this will take a little time, as consumers are only beginning to learn about this new pricing offering this year). But it does not “demean” the brand name or brand reputation of say Delta or American because it isn’t the whole plane that has gone LCC Basic Economy like BA has done (I am not going to include United for now – they have different brand reputation challenges…).
I understand there are so many factors that come into play. And I also understand each brand has its haters and lovers. I just think that BA had better options for this fight, and that the strategy they chose is one that ultimately will make BA less competitive and appealing and not more.
Jul 4, 2017, 11:25 am
#3
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,477
Better still, travel Ryanair for £9.99 when it is on sale, far cheaper than BA's RFS of £17.50 per sector!
Jul 4, 2017, 11:55 am
#4
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: near to SFO and LHR
Programs: BA Gold, B6 Mosiac, VS, AA, DL (and a legacy UA 2MM)
Posts: 2,274
Great letter, and hopefully not too long to be read by the people whose job it is to do so.
Although I fly BA (and VS) a lot long haul, in the US I fly a combination of airlines, mostly the larger ones because I have (or need) FF miles.
The big legacy airlines both in the USA and UK are finding out that they can't really compete with the smaller ones with things that make them stand out (comfort, food, service etc) - so they perhaps believe that they can drive the costs down due to economies of scale. They also believe that their route network will always overcome any advantage that the smaller airlines have. I think both assumptions are mistaken, and the bigger US airlines are starting to figure this out with new offerings, although it has not been enough to keep them from going to the extremely cramped 10-across configurations for the bigger aircraft.
I think part of the problem is that mega-mergers have allowed the airlines to get bigger and bigger, while thwarting competition and innovation, but that's perhaps the subject of another thread.
Meanwhile, though, in the US the smaller airlines (eq JetBlue) are making strides and actually have people wanting to fly them. This was my experience last week when I tried the reasonably-price Mint service and was blown away - wow!
Although I fly BA (and VS) a lot long haul, in the US I fly a combination of airlines, mostly the larger ones because I have (or need) FF miles.
The big legacy airlines both in the USA and UK are finding out that they can't really compete with the smaller ones with things that make them stand out (comfort, food, service etc) - so they perhaps believe that they can drive the costs down due to economies of scale. They also believe that their route network will always overcome any advantage that the smaller airlines have. I think both assumptions are mistaken, and the bigger US airlines are starting to figure this out with new offerings, although it has not been enough to keep them from going to the extremely cramped 10-across configurations for the bigger aircraft.
I think part of the problem is that mega-mergers have allowed the airlines to get bigger and bigger, while thwarting competition and innovation, but that's perhaps the subject of another thread.
Meanwhile, though, in the US the smaller airlines (eq JetBlue) are making strides and actually have people wanting to fly them. This was my experience last week when I tried the reasonably-price Mint service and was blown away - wow!
Jul 4, 2017, 11:59 am
#5
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
.With British Airways however, because of the brand name and long-standing marketing relationship between BA and “Britishness”, my expectations were very different from what I experienced in reality. And that creates, at least for me, a dislike.
The BA logo and brand equity still carry, rightly or wrongly, an aura of sophistication, elegance and “old world service”. I think this is what people expect, or perhaps anticipate, or perhaps think they buy into when booking BA.
The BA logo and brand equity still carry, rightly or wrongly, an aura of sophistication, elegance and “old world service”. I think this is what people expect, or perhaps anticipate, or perhaps think they buy into when booking BA.
Realistically on short haul flights these days it's about getting from A to B on time with your belongings and it sounds like BA did the job for you.
The flights you took are amongst the (if not the) shortest on the network....I don't defend BA often but I've never understood why people can't manage a 45 minute flight without refreshments. The 'window for service' on a LBA flight is what, 20 minutes? What were you really expecting in this time?
As for the feedback, I'm afraid it's so long winded I doubt anyone will go through it.
Jul 4, 2017, 12:03 pm
#6
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 4,163
These days very often everything about BA short-haul is low-cost except the ticket price. This will come back and damage them if that is not happening already.
I am also starting to notice their fare policy is changing. Previously, ticket prices would increase as the day of the flight gets closer and end up at almost full-fare the day before the flight. Last week I noticed a FAO-LGW actually decrease in price the day before the flight. Up to now I only ever saw this from LCC's, so BA, you are now also officially a LCC in service and behaviour, just not often on ticket cost.
I am also starting to notice their fare policy is changing. Previously, ticket prices would increase as the day of the flight gets closer and end up at almost full-fare the day before the flight. Last week I noticed a FAO-LGW actually decrease in price the day before the flight. Up to now I only ever saw this from LCC's, so BA, you are now also officially a LCC in service and behaviour, just not often on ticket cost.
Jul 4, 2017, 12:05 pm
#7
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Posts: 999
Jul 4, 2017, 12:13 pm
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,455
I don't mean any disrespect at all but I'm afraid it's your expectations that need to be recalibrated. Those days are long gone I'm afraid in the industry generally.
Realistically on short haul flights these days it's about getting from A to B on time with your belongings and it sounds like BA did the job for you.
The flights you took are amongst the (if not the) shortest on the network....I don't defend BA often but I've never understood why people can't manage a 45 minute flight without refreshments. The 'window for service' on a LBA flight is what, 20 minutes? What were you really expecting in this time?
As for the feedback, I'm afraid it's so long winded I doubt anyone will go through it.
Realistically on short haul flights these days it's about getting from A to B on time with your belongings and it sounds like BA did the job for you.
The flights you took are amongst the (if not the) shortest on the network....I don't defend BA often but I've never understood why people can't manage a 45 minute flight without refreshments. The 'window for service' on a LBA flight is what, 20 minutes? What were you really expecting in this time?
As for the feedback, I'm afraid it's so long winded I doubt anyone will go through it.
So it sounds like it will be an airline constantly "enhancing" its service (to maintain margins) and disappointing customers who are simply forced to choose BA because of monopolistic control of airport slots or sweetheart deals with corporate accounting departments whose staff rarely if ever fly for business.
I guess that's one way to run an airline, but even the staunchest apologist can't say it's the best way.
Jul 4, 2017, 12:14 pm
#9
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,211
Jul 4, 2017, 12:28 pm
#10
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
But if I "recalibrate my expectations" why would I pay even one quid more for a BA flight? And BA will never, ever win a price war.
So it sounds like it will be an airline constantly "enhancing" its service (to maintain margins) and disappointing customers who are simply forced to choose BA because of monopolistic control of airport slots or sweetheart deals with corporate accounting departments whose staff rarely if ever fly for business.
I guess that's one way to run an airline, but even the staunchest apologist can't say it's the best way.
So it sounds like it will be an airline constantly "enhancing" its service (to maintain margins) and disappointing customers who are simply forced to choose BA because of monopolistic control of airport slots or sweetheart deals with corporate accounting departments whose staff rarely if ever fly for business.
I guess that's one way to run an airline, but even the staunchest apologist can't say it's the best way.
How many people do you know that in 2017 really expect "sophistication, elegance and old world service" on a 40 minute flight from London to Leeds?
Jul 4, 2017, 12:44 pm
#11
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,595
BA will have you believe what you're paying for is the ability to connect from/to International to/from a wide range of UK and European destinations, the ability to partake in a range of frequent flyer programmes and as you've already mentioned access to the all important and monopolised Heathrow and all that entails. Whether or not you really buy into that way of thinking and feel that your fare dollar is really worth the product offering is for you to decide. I can understand the thought process behind this model but I don't necessarily buy into it. My BA spend has declined considerably as a result of said changes. My view is BA/IAG couldn't give a **** what you or I as passengers think. They're doing it whether we like it or not to generate as much profit as they can for shareholder satisfactin. The only time I foresee a turnabout face regarding elements to the changes you've mentioned are if passenger numbers fall as a result. Until then you can expect more of the same.
Jul 4, 2017, 12:54 pm
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,455
No one is forced to fly on BA or via Heathrow. If you are tied in to a corporate deal then the fares paid/savings will of course reflect that.
How many people do you know that in 2017 really expect "sophistication, elegance and old world service" on a 40 minute flight from London to Leeds?
How many people do you know that in 2017 really expect "sophistication, elegance and old world service" on a 40 minute flight from London to Leeds?
But as Hiddy says, we just have to wait and see how it goes.
Jul 4, 2017, 1:01 pm
#13
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,727
I distinctly recall flying ZRH-MUC & ZRH-SZG many times (on Swiss) a few years ago, where they served a meal (sandwich + dessert) AND drinks to the entire Y cabin! Have not had any reason to fly that route recently.
Jul 4, 2017, 1:07 pm
#14
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,595
And you just have to look at the fare structure on the routes you've identified to see the fares are astronomical as a stand alone point to point ticket. Presumably no EZY or FR competition driving fares down.
Jul 4, 2017, 1:15 pm
#15
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
No one is forced per se, but the convenience factor is obvious. My point and belief is brand distinction based on ephemeral conveniences costing significantly more than comparable products while selling the price difference as part of the "sophistication, etc." of the brand (undelivered) inextricably leads to customer disappointment and is unsustainable as a business model in the long term. Minus the LHR monopoly and corporate contracts, I believe Easyjet, selling itself for what it is, would have already driven BA (as currently market positioned) out of short haul. I'm discounting brand loyalists as inconsequential.
But as Hiddy says, we just have to wait and see how it goes.
But as Hiddy says, we just have to wait and see how it goes.
I can't see EasyJet driving BA off short haul. The two models are totally different. EZY is point to point, whereas BA offer hub and spoke.
But my main point was about expectations, I just don't think many people take a 40 minute flight from London to Leeds or Brussels expecting elegance and sophistication these days. If you were talking London to Hong Kong in first class that is a different thing, but the OP was travelling economy on a 40 min hop.