Move over SXM: BA does MSY-LHR from 7000ft runway!
#61
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For what it's worth, I knew MSY, but not SXM, and wouldn't have known if 7000ft was long or short for a runway.
#62
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I've quickly realised humour may not be one of your stronger traits, so googled CSA. Abbreviations.com has six pages of candidate explanations (http://www.abbreviations.com/CSA).
Could we convince you to abandon your flinty approach to educating us, by revealing the words and meaning behind CSA?
#63
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The urban dictionary suggestions were alarming: the hair-tie related one I instantly discounted.
BINGO! I'm nothing if not tenacious I phoned a friend (literally!):
A combined statistical area (CSA) is composed of adjacent metropolitan (MSA) and micropolitan statistical areas (µSA) in the United States and Puerto Rico that can demonstrate economic or social linkage. The United States Office of Management and Budget defines a CSA as consisting of various combinations of adjacent metropolitan and micropolitan areas with economic ties measured by commuting patterns. These areas that combine retain their own designations as metropolitan or micropolitan statistical areas within the larger combined statistical area.
Last edited by IAN-UK; Apr 3, 2017 at 6:57 am
#64
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I honestly thought you were joking, introducing a second obscure TLA in your thread.
I've quickly realised humour may not be one of your stronger traits, so googled CSA. Abbreviations.com has six pages of candidate explanations (http://www.abbreviations.com/CSA).
Could we convince you to abandon your flinty approach to educating us, by revealing the words and meaning behind CSA?
I've quickly realised humour may not be one of your stronger traits, so googled CSA. Abbreviations.com has six pages of candidate explanations (http://www.abbreviations.com/CSA).
Could we convince you to abandon your flinty approach to educating us, by revealing the words and meaning behind CSA?
#65
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#66
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#67
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I honestly thought you were joking, introducing a second obscure TLA in your thread.
I've quickly realised humour may not be one of your stronger traits, so googled CSA. Abbreviations.com has six pages of candidate explanations (http://www.abbreviations.com/CSA).
Could we convince you to abandon your flinty approach to educating us, by revealing the words and meaning behind CSA?
I've quickly realised humour may not be one of your stronger traits, so googled CSA. Abbreviations.com has six pages of candidate explanations (http://www.abbreviations.com/CSA).
Could we convince you to abandon your flinty approach to educating us, by revealing the words and meaning behind CSA?
Airports and airlines in particular use CSAs for their research purposes, as they paint the most realistic picture of catchment areas.
As to the CSA mentioned... it's the combination of San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, and their plethora of surrounding suburbs, to form the 8million person San Francisco Bay Combined Statistical Area: which has the distinction of being the only CSA with three different gateway airports to London.
All of the other major CSAs with multiple gateways to London (Greater New York City, Greater Orlando, Greater South Florida, Greater Washington D.C., etc) only have two.
#68
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I guess these are the broad equivalent in European terms to our NUTS.
I'll be generous: Nomenclature des unités territoriales statistiques.
NUTS level 3 are the finest grained units: there are getting on for 1400 of these in the EU, the United Kingdom accounting for 10% of them.
#69
Join Date: Aug 2006
Programs: BA Blue
Posts: 361
There was no announcement from the flight deck and we seemed to be taking the normal path to the 28 runways across the back of the 1's when we turned onto what I thought was the outside taxiway and stopped.
The engines then spooled up and we were off leaping into the sky, poetic licence, at a higher than usual angle and sitting in 64K I got a very good booty haul as everything that had been left on the locker top in row 63 came shooting down to me.
All in all a very enjoyable experience for a plane geek but as we were late leaving and it was October it was dark so no interesting views or photos
DMF
#70
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,065
Utter nonsense with today's take off performance calculations. There are a whole range of possible V1s that the performance calc could have come up with. Any of them, if properly adhered to, would render any 'investigation' mute as besides the fact a reject form below V1 would be a stopper, the other runway way well have an even more limiting or less limiting range of possible V1s to choose from. Again, any correct adherence too proper proceedure may well render the investigation mute. And not having been to MSY as yet (albeit I am soon) it may well transpire the longer runway is more limiting intemrs of profile and/ or 2nd/4th segment climb restictions than the shorter/flatter one. Balanced field calculations are a thing of the past.
Most departures use the longest available runways for sensible reasons and they are not just safety related. Engines are generally bought on a power by the hour arrangement and these arrangements mandate the use of the greatest available derate (or reduced thrust setting) for take-off in order to enhance engine life. The higher the power the higher the turbine temperature and the shorter the engine life. Also engines generally fail in one of two conditions; high power setting and or change from a steady state. So the less power the less strain the engine is under. Using max power for no reason is not the smartest thing to do, it is available but you need a pressing safety reason to use it.
Last edited by Waterhorse; Apr 4, 2017 at 3:25 am
#72
Join Date: Jul 2016
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It is type dependent though. For example, the BA Embraers at London City would automatically 'uptrim' (i.e. increase thrust) by 10% on the functioning engine in the event of an engine failure. This isn't anything to do with London City operations, it's just how that particular type was designed.
#73
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If we open the taps fully the 787s do have rather good performance. This is quite noticeable in our ability to 'double derate' the majority of our take offs.
Double derate means selecting a maximum permissible thrust by the engines of around 10 or even 20% lower than max rated, and then further lowering the thrust with the assumed temperature method. Ultimately you can end up in the right set of conditions getting airborn with only 67% of rated thrust. All of this is completely certified and allowed for by certification and the utilisation of the 'Onboard Performance Tool' or OPT.
We regularly train for engine failures on take off with double derates as the 787 can turn into a bit of a ground gripper. A full rated TOGA take off has the total opposite end of the spectrum performance.
Double derate means selecting a maximum permissible thrust by the engines of around 10 or even 20% lower than max rated, and then further lowering the thrust with the assumed temperature method. Ultimately you can end up in the right set of conditions getting airborn with only 67% of rated thrust. All of this is completely certified and allowed for by certification and the utilisation of the 'Onboard Performance Tool' or OPT.
We regularly train for engine failures on take off with double derates as the 787 can turn into a bit of a ground gripper. A full rated TOGA take off has the total opposite end of the spectrum performance.
I recently heard about an incident where a China Eastern A320 was forced to rotate early because of a runway incursion with insufficient distance to stop.
A China Eastern Airbus A320-200, registration B-2337 performing flight MU-5643 from Shanghai Hongqiao to Tianjin (China) with 147 passengers, was accelerating for takeoff from Hongqiao's runway 36L when at about 110 KIAS the crew spotted the A330-300 crossing the runway edge and assessed that they would not be able to stop in time to avoid a collision, however, they would be able to outclimb the A330. The crew firewalled the engines, continued their takeoff run, rotated the aircraft at about 130 KIAS and managed to climb the A320 over the A330. The A320 continued to Tianjin for a safe landing about 100 minutes later.
— http://avherald.com/h?article=49f37b96If a similar incident happens with a derated engine, are the crew able to remove the derate and "firewall" the engines relatively quickly? Or are you stuck with the derated power until the take off run is complete?
#74
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On an airbus the throttle has a number of detents which represent various power levels for CLIMB, FLEX, and TOGA, and the one used for take-off is the flex position which I understand is the set power level based on the selected de-rates and assumed temperature.
I would imagine in order to get additional power during a take-off you would simply manually advance the throttles from the FLEX detent to the TOGA detent which as noted above seems to give maximum available take-off thrust.
On a boeing I am genuinely not sure how you would achieve the same short of disengaging the autothrottle and manually advancing the throttles beyond the pre-calculated take-off position - I am not sure pressing the to/ga button again during the take-off roll would do anything.
EDIT: read the report on avherald which seems to bear this out "the commander took control of the aircraft, applied TOGA and accelerated the aircraft to 130 KIAS"
I would imagine in order to get additional power during a take-off you would simply manually advance the throttles from the FLEX detent to the TOGA detent which as noted above seems to give maximum available take-off thrust.
On a boeing I am genuinely not sure how you would achieve the same short of disengaging the autothrottle and manually advancing the throttles beyond the pre-calculated take-off position - I am not sure pressing the to/ga button again during the take-off roll would do anything.
EDIT: read the report on avherald which seems to bear this out "the commander took control of the aircraft, applied TOGA and accelerated the aircraft to 130 KIAS"
Last edited by KARFA; May 16, 2017 at 3:19 pm
#75
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,203
I have another question
I recently heard about an incident where a China Eastern A320 was forced to rotate early because of a runway incursion with insufficient distance to stop.
If a similar incident happens with a derated engine, are the crew able to remove the derate and "firewall" the engines relatively quickly? Or are you stuck with the derated power until the take off run is complete?
I recently heard about an incident where a China Eastern A320 was forced to rotate early because of a runway incursion with insufficient distance to stop.
A China Eastern Airbus A320-200, registration B-2337 performing flight MU-5643 from Shanghai Hongqiao to Tianjin (China) with 147 passengers, was accelerating for takeoff from Hongqiao's runway 36L when at about 110 KIAS the crew spotted the A330-300 crossing the runway edge and assessed that they would not be able to stop in time to avoid a collision, however, they would be able to outclimb the A330. The crew firewalled the engines, continued their takeoff run, rotated the aircraft at about 130 KIAS and managed to climb the A320 over the A330. The A320 continued to Tianjin for a safe landing about 100 minutes later.
— http://avherald.com/h?article=49f37b96If a similar incident happens with a derated engine, are the crew able to remove the derate and "firewall" the engines relatively quickly? Or are you stuck with the derated power until the take off run is complete?