orbitmic

But the seat width really won't be the same, it never is. They make it "count" the same by reducing armrests etc but that is merely cosmetic, hence, as also experienced by cws, the horrid experience on the 788 Y. Similarly, with the new layout, keeping the same pitch means a more cramped seat cosmetically "saved" by a thinner seat which keeps measurement constant but with explicitly less space. I think that much sadly is a given. Beyond that, sure, if you care more about IFE that space you may enjoy your flight more, but I had the impression that you thought that clever seat design and space gains would mean no noticeable loss of space for passengers, and I fear you'll be disappointed on that front, but indeed, I don't want to hammer my point and if you also fly long haul Y, soon enough you'll be able to judge and decide this for yourself and hopefully find that you still feel I was wrong.

Now to be clear, I'm not having a go at BA: other airlines do the same, and as mentioned, this was, in my view, fully expected as 10 across on the 777s simply is the norm as is 9 across on the 787. And in answer to T8191, as mentioned, I have no doubt that most people (be they frequent or infrequent travellers) will accept the change anyway and will blame the discomfort of the seat on "airlines" and the assumption that flying always is uncomfortable anyway. That was not an argument I was disagreeing with.

PrimaVista

British Airways are enhancing their product to the levels of local and international rivals, naming specifically upstart Norwegian.

Norwegian offer 17.2* wide economy seats with 31 - 32" pitch compared to the current British Airways offering on their Gatwick 777s of 17.5" and 31".

Norwegian have the advantage of brand new aircraft, lovely interiors, cutting edge IFE and wifi; advantage Norwegian.

If BA tackle this properly by configuring the 777s with new slimline architecture, modern seating, mood lighting, the latest IFE and wifi, they could still beat Norwegian on seat width. Provided they do no further unbundling of Y, that could give them a continued edge. The addition of two premium cabins with W and J over Norwegian's Premium Economy is just added fat to the bottom line.

BA are late, almost last, to the party with 10 abreast on the 777 and I don't understand the uproar over it consequentially. It is surely sound commercial sense.

FlyerTalker688786

I welcome the added WT+ cabin. And I welcome the changes to B777. It will be an upgrade. The problem is the A320.

With added capacity, BA will somehow fill all these airplanes. Can they do that without trash the yield or occupancy?

I am not that convinced at this moment. I think BA will suffer in 2018 in terms of yield or PRASM. Next year 1H is likely to be part of the remaining good years for share performance. I expect 2018, when IAG plan fully implemented, IAG will suffer due to weakness in BA's performance. Wait until Norwegian gets into Spain-Latin America market...oh boy.

Flexible preferences

But so what if BA manage to 'save' the space to enable a similar seat width by altering the seat design, or narrowing the aisles a little, or (perhaps) making the cabin walls thinner? So what, providing you still have the same legroom, and seat width?

I'm actually a little confused. It is public transport, after all, and Y class. You're going to have a lot of people around you. So, yes, there will be 11% ish more people around you now, and perhaps a tiny bit closer to you, but you still have the same legroom and space between your face and the (larger and better) seatback screen. How I would have loved this, rather than my recent trip back from ANU in Y on a clapped out LGW 777.

destere

Can we just get this straight: Thinner cabin walls are a feature of the new 777X series of aircraft, and not a retrofit. It's not going to happen to the current fleet.

orbitmic

Again, it is not similar seat width. That's my point. If the seat offered the same space by whatever method I couldn't care less, but it simply is not the case. The airlines have become very good at playing the measurement "rules" so that they can offer the same figure with a narrower seat but it is a narrower seat.

It is not about how it is achieved or anything like that, it is strictly speaking about moving from a wider seat to a narrower one.

And as mentioned by others, thinner walls are a fiction, there will be no thinner walls on the Gatwick fleet or any other 772 or 77W.

Flexible preferences

Well some space will be clawed back from narrowing the aisles, but sure, let's say you're right and the seat is a little narrower. You would rather have the width, and I would rather have the nicer seat, better IFE and refreshed cabin.
Our mileage does indeed vary.

V10

I'm with you on this. The same arguments were trotted out when the new shorthaul cabins came about as to how the seat design was more efficient and there would be no loss of space. However, having flown in the new shorthaul cabins enough myself, I simply don't buy that argument. As far as I'm concerned, there was a loss of space available to me in the new seating, and a corresponding reduction in overall comfort, compared to the old shorthaul cabin. I expect exactly the same with the new long haul Y cabin.

As I have a limited tolerance for binge watching stuff on flights, improved IFE is not something that will offset the reduction in seat comfort and space either.

I recognise that BA is only following the market trend and the only consideration for economy air travel is that you reach your destination. You expect - and get - nothing else. For me, I will not travel like that. Long haul Y is not an option, and if it is the only option available, I will not fly - simple as that.

flatlander

Not yet mentioned: the extremely bad IFE boxes on BA's 787 which take away 40-50% of the underseat space, where one's feet have to go if one is to sit in a natural (90 degree knee angle) position when one has longer legs or larger feet - let along put one's smaller carryon bag down there, or things one may want ready access to during the flight (drinks, entertainment).

I completely do not understand why they had to take so much cabin space in a new, as-delivered IFE installation. This is a genuine question - does anyone know why the IFE hardware on the 787 is not integrated under the floor, overhead, in the walls or in the seat?

If BA do that to the 777 when they go to "10-across seating, new seats, new IFE...", then it will be a further decrease in passenger comfort.

cosmo74

The Daily Mail has finally read The Independent (can't believe they actually name that as a source rather than reading the presentation - well I can, its the DM) and picked up on this story http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3908912/British-Airways-make-plane-seats-SMALLER-squeeze-extra-passengers-economy-777s.html#comments It's obviously going down well in the comments

CKBA

... is Air NZ really a competitor?
... and allow the company to charge a lower price (for what? - it doesn't say!).

tartempion

I recently flew 4 segments on QR's new 777/300ER in J to BKK and AMS (QR dropped their 3x BKK A380 to new 777 config) and I dislike the 2/2/2 J layout, much prefer the 787 and 380 1/2/1.
Unfortunately I have an upcoming AMS-DOH-BKK on 777 next week.
And no way I will fly 777 in 10 abreast nor the 787 in 3/3/3 again (yes, I tried the BA 787 recently, no thanks, still was lucky to get upgraded to WT+ on the return)

leaveamessage

And no mention of 'show me the ****ing money' either...

simons1

Indeed...as has been pointed out 2 or 3 times already.

Sadly though some people feel a need to invent things to get their point across.

With the travel policy we have I often use 10 abrest Y in EK, particularly on regional routes. The IFE is good, the food usually OK and the planes clean. On a 3/4 hour trip that's fine.

I suspect the actual seat size is little different, maybe half an inch narrower but better pitch.

Flexible preferences

Now I am with you on this - I also cannot understand why the IFE a) takes up so much space when we can fit so much more into a smartphone and b) why it isn't hidden better - for instance in the seat or under the floor. However, from my understanding it isn't as much as 40-50% - more like 25% of the available space?

Let's hope they find a better solution before the refit.