[yet another] pax upset about being misconnected on a tight connection
Jun 4, 2014, 2:14 am
#46
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Fareham, UK
Programs: BA GGL+CCR, HHonors Dia, Hyatt Dia
Posts: 273
Thank you for that perspective, I personally hadn't added up all those dots before and indeed I can see how in some travellers mind it all gets connected to skin colour. Possibly add in differing perceptions as to what airline staff and cabin crew are supposed to do. Being there "primarily for your safety" probably doesn't compute either, in some cases.
In a sense it is unlikely, given where the airport is based and the local workforce. Further more India is BA's second biggest market, it has absolutely no interest in making life more difficult for people from the Sub-Continent. My own take on this, not having witnessed the incident, is that people really ought to be 101% certain before reaching for the R card, but in moments of sheer frustration I can see how someone may reach a bit too soon.
In a sense it is unlikely, given where the airport is based and the local workforce. Further more India is BA's second biggest market, it has absolutely no interest in making life more difficult for people from the Sub-Continent. My own take on this, not having witnessed the incident, is that people really ought to be 101% certain before reaching for the R card, but in moments of sheer frustration I can see how someone may reach a bit too soon.
Racism is an ugly thing and having been on the receiving end should be removed from all well meaning societies. Perceived racism is a far more difficult issue and unfortunately inflammatory blogs like this one do not help matters at all.
The report could have been written in a completely different approach and been a very good piece to bring the plight and issues to the headlines.
IMHO the DYKWIA nature of the blog and no doubt attitude of the blogger at LHR devalues the whole piece and point being made.
Jun 4, 2014, 4:47 am
#47
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MAA
Programs: BA bronze, Marriott silver
Posts: 2,804
Some of this cuts multiple ways.
Plenty of stories about racism on "foreign" airlines = you'll automatically view anything that impacts you through a lens of whether it could have been motivated by racism. And what's funny is that it does exist here and there, like the CDG security type who didn't think to look at my (now long gone) AF plat card or boarding pass, and tried to hustle me over to the economy rather than the premium security line. Or the EK ground crew guy (an emirati) who was escorting a bunch of Indian pax, including me, into an airside transfer bus to their connecting flight. "You indians are always like this, come quickly".
Cabin crew on several Indian airlines (even AI, these days) routinely go the extra mile for pax, even in these days of cutbacks. Helping the elderly / short etc put their luggage into the overhead bins is something lots of pax, as well as cabin crew, are glad to do. NOT as a part of their job description. "Health and safety" = cabin crew on BA don't [often] do that
I suppose denying compensation claims works just like denying insurance claims. The large majority of people - flying home over a weekend, retired and flying out on holiday etc - don't do much more than grumble about a few hours extra delay, and are often touchingly grateful for being rerouted and being given a 10 quid bar / restaurant coupon. The few that say the magic word "eu 261" and/or pull the regs up on their smartphones to hand the customer service rep .. well, they get their 600 euro without a murmur. The net saving on lots of 10 quid [and a discounted 10 quid when coupons are bought in bulk] versus 600 euro payouts tends to add up, I guess.
Plenty of stories about racism on "foreign" airlines = you'll automatically view anything that impacts you through a lens of whether it could have been motivated by racism. And what's funny is that it does exist here and there, like the CDG security type who didn't think to look at my (now long gone) AF plat card or boarding pass, and tried to hustle me over to the economy rather than the premium security line. Or the EK ground crew guy (an emirati) who was escorting a bunch of Indian pax, including me, into an airside transfer bus to their connecting flight. "You indians are always like this, come quickly".
Cabin crew on several Indian airlines (even AI, these days) routinely go the extra mile for pax, even in these days of cutbacks. Helping the elderly / short etc put their luggage into the overhead bins is something lots of pax, as well as cabin crew, are glad to do. NOT as a part of their job description. "Health and safety" = cabin crew on BA don't [often] do that
I suppose denying compensation claims works just like denying insurance claims. The large majority of people - flying home over a weekend, retired and flying out on holiday etc - don't do much more than grumble about a few hours extra delay, and are often touchingly grateful for being rerouted and being given a 10 quid bar / restaurant coupon. The few that say the magic word "eu 261" and/or pull the regs up on their smartphones to hand the customer service rep .. well, they get their 600 euro without a murmur. The net saving on lots of 10 quid [and a discounted 10 quid when coupons are bought in bulk] versus 600 euro payouts tends to add up, I guess.
Jun 6, 2014, 3:52 pm
#48
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: mostly London
Programs: BA Gold - so flying too much again... plus AA, LX, VS and too many hotel programmes to mention
Posts: 594
Reply from BA
The reply from BA is now on her website...
http://getsetandgo.wordpress.com/about/
Well worded - comprehensive, firm and polite.
Nice how he gently points out that a 1 hour connection is pushing your luck if anything goes wrong...
... and then doesn't offer her any Avios.
Seems to bring it to a decent conclusion.
http://getsetandgo.wordpress.com/about/
Well worded - comprehensive, firm and polite.
Nice how he gently points out that a 1 hour connection is pushing your luck if anything goes wrong...
... and then doesn't offer her any Avios.
Seems to bring it to a decent conclusion.
Jun 6, 2014, 4:41 pm
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,200
Jun 6, 2014, 8:40 pm
#50
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NYC
Programs: BA Gold, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,260
I was on a Virgin flight on BOM-LHR-EWR back in 2008 and a similar thing happened. Left BOM a bit late, arrived at LHR on a remote stand and we had no stairs avaiable for 30 mins. Missed the last EWR flight for the day.
Only option was to take a flight to JFK next morning or spend a whole day in London which we didnt want to. UKBA granted 1 day visa to my companion.
I made sure VS staff in London put a note saying we had to choose JFK against our wish and pay for our cab to NJ. Arrived at JFK and there was a 1.5 hr wait for car service.
We took one of the unauthorized cabs and sent in the receipt to VS. They reimbursed $120 promptly. There were lot of fights at Heathrow during the misconnect. Some passengers expected a member of staff to greet and sort things out or a better hotel. I was polite, calm and made the best of the situation(and if It matters - I'm from India) and guided some old people to join us on the Hotel Hoppa ride to the hotel.
The irony is when boarding in BOM(on an already delayed flight) - there was 'random' security on the jet bridge. I was pulled out and hand luggage checked for quite a while. I stayed back for a bit and politely asked the Indian security how is it 'random' when in a flight with about 30% whites - not a single foreigner was stopped. At LHR also there was secondary checks and a truly random mix of people were checked again(luckily I wasnt).
This story was over the top - I can understand the similar story last year with Air France as people were not given visas or accommodation overnight.
Only option was to take a flight to JFK next morning or spend a whole day in London which we didnt want to. UKBA granted 1 day visa to my companion.
I made sure VS staff in London put a note saying we had to choose JFK against our wish and pay for our cab to NJ. Arrived at JFK and there was a 1.5 hr wait for car service.
We took one of the unauthorized cabs and sent in the receipt to VS. They reimbursed $120 promptly. There were lot of fights at Heathrow during the misconnect. Some passengers expected a member of staff to greet and sort things out or a better hotel. I was polite, calm and made the best of the situation(and if It matters - I'm from India) and guided some old people to join us on the Hotel Hoppa ride to the hotel.
The irony is when boarding in BOM(on an already delayed flight) - there was 'random' security on the jet bridge. I was pulled out and hand luggage checked for quite a while. I stayed back for a bit and politely asked the Indian security how is it 'random' when in a flight with about 30% whites - not a single foreigner was stopped. At LHR also there was secondary checks and a truly random mix of people were checked again(luckily I wasnt).
This story was over the top - I can understand the similar story last year with Air France as people were not given visas or accommodation overnight.
Jun 7, 2014, 1:38 am
#51
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Southern Med
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, Gulf Air Silver, Aegean Gold, M&M FQTV, Air Malta Diamond
Posts: 1,741
Who cares what he does, when he visits family in NZ? The issue is that BA sold her a ticket with a one hour connection and must man up to he consequences of her misconnecting.
The information about the late arrival of crew and late removal of equipment shows clearly that there are no extraordinary circumstances at play.
So why isn't she advised of her right to 600€ for the long delay?
Jun 7, 2014, 3:59 am
#52
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
[yet another] pax upset about being misconnected on a tight connection
I'll agree with you on the letter. It's totally rambling and off point. I think a 60 minute connection between international flights is optimistic and invites these sort of problems. I can understand that he doesn't point her to EU261, even though she deserves it, in my view. That said, she probably already knows it as she is such a travel guru!
Jun 7, 2014, 4:14 am
#53
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Southern Med
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, Gulf Air Silver, Aegean Gold, M&M FQTV, Air Malta Diamond
Posts: 1,741
I'll agree with you on the letter. It's totally rambling and off point. I think a 60 minute connection between international flights is optimistic and invites these sort of problems. I can understand that he doesn't point her to EU261, even though she deserves it, in my view. That said, she probably already knows it as she is such a travel guru!
Jun 7, 2014, 4:39 am
#54
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,821
I think a 60 minute connection between international flights is optimistic and invites these sort of problems. I can understand that he doesn't point her to EU261, even though she deserves it, in my view. That said, she probably already knows it as she is such a travel guru!
I very much support the 60 minute connection, it normally works well: what is really missing is some information on how T5 works and some of the complications that can arise - which arguably is the unofficial role of this Board. If it was pushed out to 90 minutes then a lot of my flights would be extended considerably, and in some cases impossible due to service frequency. 60 minutes is absolutely fine. I've checked my fgures, and for flights between 60 and 75 minutes I have made every single flight in the last 12 months - and n=large figure. My 2 misconnects at T5 were 85 minutes and 140 minutes. Just one traveller's experiences but so long as the passenger is aware they can adapt accordingly.
This traveller was BA Blue, unfamiliar with T5, and unfamiliar with the implications of missing her flight. And presumably unfamiliar with this website. It didn't make for a good experience for her, but at least she got the longest customer service reply / apology I've ever seen!
Jun 7, 2014, 1:32 pm
#55
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Southern Med
Programs: BAEC Silver, Flying Blue Gold, Gulf Air Silver, Aegean Gold, M&M FQTV, Air Malta Diamond
Posts: 1,741
I must be dense, because I can't see either of those. Far be it from me to suggest that the agent sent a link that was least injurious to the airline.
Jun 7, 2014, 2:42 pm
#56
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,821
Sorry, could you show exactly where EC261 is mentioned in the CAA link and in particular, the compensation for long delays?
I must be dense, because I can't see either of those. Far be it from me to suggest that the agent sent a link that was least injurious to the airline.
I must be dense, because I can't see either of those. Far be it from me to suggest that the agent sent a link that was least injurious to the airline.
www.caa.co.uk/disruption
in the After the Disruption section, which is where the traveller is now.
I agree it could be a bit more up front about it! But allegedly over 96% of disruption is not eligible for EU261.
Jun 7, 2014, 4:31 pm
#57
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,212
Jun 7, 2014, 6:10 pm
#58
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: NH Plat
Posts: 652
I agree and think the letter is rambling and poor.
Who cares what he does, when he visits family in NZ? The issue is that BA sold her a ticket with a one hour connection and must man up to he consequences of her misconnecting.
The information about the late arrival of crew and late removal of equipment shows clearly that there are no extraordinary circumstances at play.
So why isn't she advised of her right to 600€ for the long delay?
Who cares what he does, when he visits family in NZ? The issue is that BA sold her a ticket with a one hour connection and must man up to he consequences of her misconnecting.
The information about the late arrival of crew and late removal of equipment shows clearly that there are no extraordinary circumstances at play.
So why isn't she advised of her right to 600€ for the long delay?
Jun 7, 2014, 6:21 pm
#59
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: scotland/EDI
Programs: BAEC , M&M , VIRGIN FC , FLYING BLUE
Posts: 1,438
well I have now read the original link to the article/blog
in my opinion it was full of racist slurs and accusations of racism and not a blog I would consider reading a second time
the race card was used from the first words through to to the last
if I were BA I would be contacting the owner of the blog and informing them that legal action will be taken against them unless the blog was removed
in my opinion it was full of racist slurs and accusations of racism and not a blog I would consider reading a second time
the race card was used from the first words through to to the last
if I were BA I would be contacting the owner of the blog and informing them that legal action will be taken against them unless the blog was removed
Jun 7, 2014, 8:05 pm
#60
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Entirely unclear to me that EC 261/2004 applies. The ultimate delay was caused by another aircraft and its position. We have no way of knowing why that aircraft was where it was, e.g. delayed push because BA loused up the paperwork; Ground Control held the aircraft and so on.
The fact that there was a delay doesn't mean that it was compensable beyond duty of care.
The fact that there was a delay doesn't mean that it was compensable beyond duty of care.