Dave Noble

I would suggest just sending a letter 1st detailing the issue and what compensation is due and only fall back to these companies if stonewalled by BA.

In the event that BA pays out without a fight , you will then get the whole amount with the same effort as contacting one of these other companies.

If BA claims that there is no entitlement, you can still fall back to using one of these companies

John Kline

Has anybody been refused on the basis of 7 minutes inside the three hour cut off point?



Your claim for compensation has been refused because flight BA1387 on 1 March 2012 was delayed due to Air Traffic Control restrictions, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, British Airways is not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
Unfortunately airline operations are subject to circumstances outside the airline's control. British Airways takes all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight in such circumstances. Consideration is given to whether there are any operational options available before a decision to delay is made. We are sorry that the delay was necessary in this case.

Total delay: 173 minutes
Since your flight was not delayed in arriving by 3 hours or more your claim for compensation under EU Regulation 261/2004 has been refused.
Thank you for following this up with us. I do hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon.

Suffice to say, is this the end of my claim?

corporate-wage-slave

If your ticket ended with this service and it was under 3 hours late, then yes. Even if it was 1 minute under you could expect nothing under the Regulations, just as you would expect full compensation if 1 minute over 3 hours.

And yes ATC delays are valid reasons for rejecting claims too, though the 2 paragraphs don't seem to connect in my mind, is there a chunk missing?

Andy33

Looks like they've marshalled two defences against a claim - one is that the delay was caused by ATC, which is not a reason for compensation, and the other is that even if the delay was their fault, as it was under 3 hours, you aren't eligible anyway. Unless you can show that both of these statements are false, I'd say that's as far as you can go.

John Kline

Sorry, here's the full response;

Your claim for compensation has been refused because flight BA1387 on 1 March 2012 was delayed due to Air Traffic Control restrictions, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, British Airways is not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
Unfortunately airline operations are subject to circumstances outside the airline's control. British Airways takes all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight in such circumstances. Consideration is given to whether there are any operational options available before a decision to delay is made. We are sorry that the delay was necessary in this case.

In addition to this, I have checked the details of your flights, the BA286 on 8 March 2012 and the BA1398 on 9 March 2012. I have included the details below for your reference:
Original Itinerary

Flight BA286 from San Francisco to London Heathrow.
Scheduled departure date and time: 9 March 2012 03.40 GMT
Scheduled arrival date and time: 9 March 2012 14.00 GMT

Flight BA1398 from London Heathrow to Manchester.
Scheduled departure date and time: 9 March 2012 17.15 GMT
Scheduled arrival date and time: 9 March 2012 18.15 GMT


Actual Itinerary

Flight BA286 from San Francisco to London Heathrow.
Actual departure date and time: 9 March 2012 07.37 GMT
Actual arrival date and time: 9 March 2012 17.18 GMT

Flight BA1404 from London Heathrow to Manchester.
Actual departure date and time: 9 March 2012 19.59 GMT
Actual arrival date and time: 9 March 2012 21.08 GMT

Total delay: 173 minutes
Since your flight was not delayed in arriving by 3 hours or more your claim for compensation under EU Regulation 261/2004 has been refused.
Thank you for following this up with us. I do hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon.

corporate-wage-slave

I thought it didn't scan very well!

Yes, the return is copperbottomed: you left very late, made up a bit of time, and were under 3 hours late in getting you home, so no claim there.

For the outbound, the first part of the reply, then if it was genuinely ATC (normally the captain or first officer would make that clear in the onboard announcements) then that is not under BA's control. ATC delays are often caused by poor weather, which also a valid reason for denying claims.

John Kline

The 173 minute delay was due to an unwell pax diversion to Glasgow on the inward flight.
The outbound flight was delayed four hours due to fog at LHR. I assume that is the ATC enforced delay.

EDI_Martin

Anyone with a delay of more than 3 hours and under 4 hours for a flight over 3500km's would get this result, this is not BA policy but the guidelines under EU261

John Kline

Fair play.

W.G.C

Quick update - I followed the excellent advice of those on this forum, and asked BA for the specific reasons they had rejected my claim, referring them to Article 5 Section 4.

Success! They replied to me within a couple of hours, saying that I was eligible. This is a complete about-turn on their previous correspondence.

Thanks very much to corporate-wage-slave and HMPS for their help.

jayr111

Success BA have accepted liability. When I pushed them for copies of all correspondence and informed i will be taking them to Small Claims court.
Thank you for contacting us about your claim for compensation and your request for your correspondence. Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding.

Your claim has been reviewed and I can confirm that you are entitled to compensation for cancellation of your flight BA2578 on 03 October 2014. The distance of your disrupted journey, as calculated in accordance with EU legislation, was 1,500km or less. Based on this, you are entitled to €250.00 in compensation.

The fastest and most secure way to settle your claim is by bank transfer to a UK account. I will be happy to arrange this for you. Please provide the following information so I can set up your bank transfer:

Bank name
Branch name
Sort code (6 digits)
Account number (8 digits)

visit14

Probably answered up-thread, but can't find with search, so apologies in advance if duplication.

Question is: when preparing a downgrade compensation claim for an Avios 2-4-1 reward booking on a one-way category 3 flight, would the amount to claim be:

• 75% of the Avios used (and 75% of the 2-4-1 voucher ??)

or

• 75% of the Avios used (and 75% of the 2-4-1 voucher ??) AND 75% of the amount paid in taxes/fees/charges

Many thanks

corporate-wage-slave

It would be the latter. So 75% of the redemption plus 75% of the cash. Keep us posted on this one, I know BA seems to struggle a bit on downgrades, they will probably make it pro rata to the distance, but the regulations do say "ticket" and makes no mention of downscaling a return to a single (for example).

visit14

Thanks, and will do.

Currently BA is adamant that if advance notice is given of an involuntary downgrade (along with the offer of a full refund and no travel or a refund in the fare difference between the two cabins and travel in the lower cabin) then no compensation is due. I will only be able to challenge this questionable interpretation of the legislation after I have flown the particular segment, as a claim cannot be made in advance. But from initial correspondence around the matter, they are denying any liability (unsurprisingly!)

corporate-wage-slave

Well to be clear, there have been debates about it here. There is no timescale associated with downgrades, and some argue that you've accepted the deal (especially if the cabin no longer exists), and others arguing that the regulation covers downgrades sine die. If you had rebooked yourself into an equivalent class on an alternative airline (assuming BA refused to do this) then another legal line of approach would apply. So I suspect this may be one that actually ends up in court if the sums are significant.