corporate-wage-slave

The flashpoint for Jet-A is potentially 38c and above. Here is the MSDS for BP's Jet A which gives a full breakdown of the control needed in this situation, see sections 6 and 10.

Poxball

Link not working CWS as another wave of washes over me....

corporate-wage-slave

Sorry to hear that, here is a copy I put on to Google Docs:

http://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQx...it?usp=sharing

Poxball

Still doesn't work on the iPad but don't worry it would have only confused me even more

vibrex

Jet A1 takes some effort to ignite. With that said there are still strict rules regarding refuelling and when fuel tanks are open for maintenance. During refuel there are restrictions on what can be done while fuelling is taking place. Radio transmissions and APU starting and stopping for example.

I have been involved in several fuel related incidents, the most hazardous being a failed seal in an air to air refuelling probe (during a pressure test on the ground) resulting in fuel pouring into the flight deck through the circuit breaker panels.

I have heard stories of accidents/explosions through negligence but nothing factual to hand. I do seem to recall a 747 mid air years ago which was thought to be a tank explosion??

HIDDY

The China Airlines fire in Japan shows how quickly things can go wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qyZFASOAe0

mjh0

There was a refuelling accident in Denver involving G-VIIK back in 2001 where fuel leaked out during the refuelling operation and caught fire - the pressure from the refuelling causing sufficient atomisation, and obviously there was some sort of heat present for ignition to occur. Killed the fueller, sadly.

But, this shows the various conditions that have to be met for aviation kerosene to catch fire.

Cheers,
Mike

vibrex

Thanks for that, I just searched for it online and read the facts. I do now recall the event.

SpurMan

Think you are talking about the TWA800 tragedy. Centre wing fuel tank exploded due to an errant jump of current from worn wires into the tank which had fuel vapour still in it though it was empty.

On the China Airlines fire, why did it take the fire crews so long to get there?

greg5

Here's a link to the MSDS for Jet-A http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/m.../025/BPFXN.HTM

I was told long ago by some aviation industry engineer the following: Commercial jet engines can burn pretty much any fuel. Jet-A is the cheapest fuel they can burn so that's what they burn. Diesel is more expensive, and more reactive than Jet-A.

It's been quite awhile since I've talked with a fuels expert, so I might not be 100% correct on this. But I remember being quite surprised, as I though Jet fuel was some high-tech fuel.

vibrex

Yes you were informed correctly. For the most part though a jet engine will run on most anything. The Russians dabbled with hydrogen years ago and I seem to recall the use of coal dust in the early (experimental) days, would have to check on that. There are a couple of aircraft that need more specialist fuels, the SR71 being one of those. There are other fuels available, in colder countries (Canada) Jet B is available which is definitely more hazardous. Some manufacturers don't authorise its use however.

EDIT: By the same token, up in the Arctic Circle (BDU) Norwegian diesel military vehicles use Jet A1/Jet A1+

vibrex

Ah yes that's the one. Quite a few conspiracy theories before the discovery as I recall.

The stories I had heard were caused by electrical problems too.

Sigwx

Very similar to the Thai 737 at Don Muang in 2001. Have a look at this link to see how the press reported the story. http://www.b737.org.uk/thai737news.htm


Quotes from supposed 'experts' are available in other reports should you wish to expand. As usual the investigation finds the real cause, but none of the now discredited 'experts' are available for comment.

NGS or Nitrogen Generating Systems are now very common for centre tanks.



For the 777 the following fuels are permitted

greg5

The chat I had with the fuels guy was before the 777 was designed.

I think that the engines can probably burn more types of fuel than what they're certified for. And, I'd imagine that there's an ETOPS component with the fuel as well.

Given that it's likely that Jet Fuel is probably going to be what the airlines are using, I wouldn't expect the engine manufacturers to certify for fuels that the engines are unlikely to burn.

I wonder if there are different fuel options for the GE90 and the RR Trent 800. I'd guess that there aren't.

vibrex

Thanks for that. Interesting stuff, fortunately on the ground at the time. I notice it also refers to an incident in May 1990 which I'll check out too.