Incident at JNB [BA 744 G-BNLL collides with building]
Dec 23, 2013, 6:24 am
#181
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Example here from a 787, with the moving ground map shown on the left hand side of the second screen from the left.
Dec 23, 2013, 6:24 am
#182
Join Date: May 2013
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It just shows how safe aviation in general is. It needs many holes in the swiss cheese to cause an incident. The chart and routing are ambiguous and it is a surprise this has not happened before. Or more like, it has but with planes with smaller wingspan. That is why there is he extra note in the diagram.
I have been PIC into some complicated airfields and I would say the expected twy designation here would be that B would continue as B and M would turn left towards 03L. Then the twy instruction from atc would also be more clear, B to M to holding 03L instead of B to holding 03L. This would indicate a clear intersection point, instead of having to look for a sign showing where B turns left and continues as M.
I have been PIC into some complicated airfields and I would say the expected twy designation here would be that B would continue as B and M would turn left towards 03L. Then the twy instruction from atc would also be more clear, B to M to holding 03L instead of B to holding 03L. This would indicate a clear intersection point, instead of having to look for a sign showing where B turns left and continues as M.
Dec 23, 2013, 6:25 am
#183
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Based on looking at pics alone, it would only take a few seconds of "dual heads down time" to miss the sign. And during nighttime situational awareness when taxiing is very tricky anyway. That twy designation and routing gives a chance for a pilot error to occur, which is exactly the opposite what it should do. I am also surprised it is not marked as a hotspot as per usually a place like that should.
Dec 23, 2013, 6:25 am
#184
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Dec 23, 2013, 6:30 am
#185
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BA has done a good job in re-booking people on to flights but I'm one of the lucky ones whose destination is London. Many people are flying onwards to the U.S and one couple for a cruise in the Caribbean but their schedule is messed up now. I think the people with the most difficulty are the ones with non BA connections in London.
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This really is one of those situations though, where BA needs to step up and take care of all passengers regardless of what their onward tickets are. It will be interesting to see if BA actually does follow up with you after this incident...
Dec 23, 2013, 6:31 am
#186
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I wouldn't be surprised if something like that isn't recommended after this investigation. Even to me with only basic understanding of ops, that makes much more sense and seems far clearer to understand. But I guess we'll have to wait and see what the outcome of the investigation is.
Dec 23, 2013, 6:31 am
#187
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Very true, I guess that is a possibility. But also, with all the regular pilots who fly out of there, would one of them not have noticed something was wrong and informed ATC? I suppose this might have happened and we don't know yet. But also, I suppose if you're taxiing along somewhere you have thousands of times before you might not notice something like that.
Dames, first of all I just wanted to say how much I love your country, I have been there many times, it is a wonderful place, the people are fantastic, and I really do not think it is so dangerous that you should stay on a plane that may explode because it is potentially unsafe in the city outside.
Having said that I would take more care in Hillbrow than Brixton, but then that is just me, and I am a simple man.
An excellent parallel thread about this incident can be found at http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...annesburg.html. Pprune is the Professional Pilots Rumour Network. One of the interesting comments is referenced to our OP who was on this flight, who refers to how fast the aircraft was travelling when it hit the building. They also talk about how there are apparently no green lines at JNB, and how it may be helpful for these to be introduced especially if this is an outcome of this crash.
Dec 23, 2013, 6:34 am
#188
Join Date: May 2013
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Dames, first of all I just wanted to say how much I love your country, I have been there many times, it is a wonderful place, the people are fantastic, and I really do not think it is so dangerous that you should stay on a plane that may explode because it is potentially unsafe in the city outside.
Having said that I would take more care in Hillbrow than Brixton, but then that is just me, and I am a simple man.
Having said that I would take more care in Hillbrow than Brixton, but then that is just me, and I am a simple man.
Dec 23, 2013, 6:35 am
#189
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BA World Cargo would have to send a freighter down especially (I don't think they operate freighters from LHR-JNB at the moment) but it would definitely be worth it. Although small compared to the costs of operating the flight they won't even pay ground handling charges as it'll be classed as service freight.
Despite the recent check, the airframe itself is worth next to nothing after 24 years and 109000 hours, the vast majority of the value of the aircraft is those four engines.
Despite the recent check, the airframe itself is worth next to nothing after 24 years and 109000 hours, the vast majority of the value of the aircraft is those four engines.
Of course, scrap value and insured value will both be very different - one lower, and one higher.
Dec 23, 2013, 6:43 am
#190
Join Date: May 2013
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Smiley noted, but it really depends on factors such as whether Oxfam was planning to get a days' work out of her at the office today (as opposed to paying a days' salary for her recuperating at home). Also, BA, to their credit, offers very useful charity fares, which offer flexibility similar to those of much more expensive business class fares.
Maybe she was a GCH upgraded operational reasons, maybe upgraded through Avios, who knows/cares. It's as much our business as any of our own travel arrangements.
Perhaps we can all move on from the half baked speculation whether accompanied by smileys or not?
Dec 23, 2013, 6:48 am
#191
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I find that astounding and it certainly wouldn't have passed muster with us. Fortunately not all charities remunerate their staff like wealthy corporations. But this is a good reason to use a website like Charity Watch or Charity Navigator to assess what % of your donation is spent on administration.
Dec 23, 2013, 6:52 am
#192
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I don't think we FlyerTalkers are the best people to comment on the cabin a person flies on. Was she flying for business reason I could understand the critics, but given she was on vacation she can spend her money how she wants, that's a personal trip and I don't think we should comment on it. Just my opinion though.
Dec 23, 2013, 6:55 am
#193
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Any info on aircraft movement(s) immediately in front of G-BNLL?
For example, had a CR8 or something used 'M' before?
or indeed was there an unusually large gap in front to the preceding take-off slot?
I have sat in the K seats taxi-ing out in that general vicinity before, and do not recall either unusual speed or indeed a wait for take-off (apart from during a thunderstorm).
Very odd event, but then again many accidents are. Hopefully aviation will be yet safer once the lessons are learned and disseminated.
For example, had a CR8 or something used 'M' before?
or indeed was there an unusually large gap in front to the preceding take-off slot?
I have sat in the K seats taxi-ing out in that general vicinity before, and do not recall either unusual speed or indeed a wait for take-off (apart from during a thunderstorm).
Very odd event, but then again many accidents are. Hopefully aviation will be yet safer once the lessons are learned and disseminated.
Dec 23, 2013, 6:57 am
#194
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Reading some media reports, I couldn't help but be reminded of the Asiana SFO incident where the intern "confirmed" the pilots' names - Sum Ting Wong, Ho lee Fuk etc and these were innocently reported in the media. 
Has there been any official confirmation of flight crew names in the media yet? Either from BA or from the ZA airport authorities?
Has there been any official confirmation of flight crew names in the media yet? Either from BA or from the ZA airport authorities?
Dec 23, 2013, 7:00 am
#195
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