BA3 LCY-JFK to lose US preclearance in Shannon [from 28 October 2012]
Jul 23, 2012, 9:08 am
#61
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Just as importantly, when you are in the US Pre-clearance area, you ALWAYS have the RIGHT to turn around and say that you don't want to travel to the US any more. Additionally, US Pre-clearance officers do not have the right to detain unless they suspect under reasonable grounds that they suspect you of making false or deceptive claims, or of "obstructing a preclearance officer". They also can frisk you with reasonable suspicion, but they can NOT strip-search you (they must ask a Canadian officer to do that). US officers can't even arrest people in the pre-clearance area; again, they have to ask a Canadian officer to do that.
Jul 23, 2012, 1:24 pm
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We can dream.
Originally Posted by gw76
Maybe with GLA apparently investigating Pre-Clearance we could see a stop there ?
Aug 23, 2012, 10:02 am
#66
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Is it fair to say that the LCY-JFK flights are more O/D than connecting? If so, would it make sense to reschedule BA 3 as a really early departure? E.g. 8am arriving JFK at midday?
Aug 23, 2012, 2:53 pm
#67
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If a plane arrives at mid-day, it has to sit all afternoon at JFK doing nothing.
The earliest arrival time at LCY is after 7am. So the earliest departure time erin JFK is 7pm. Plane sits between noon and 7pm.
This also leaves too little time turn the plane around at LCY for the return flight at 8am.
Last edited by KenJohn; Aug 24, 2012 at 2:45 am
Aug 23, 2012, 3:59 pm
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The problem is scheduling the return flight given UK airport curfews.
If a plane arrives at mid-day, it has to sit all afternoon at JFK doing nothing.
The earliest arrival time at LCY is after 7am. So the earliest departure time erin JFK is 7pm. Plane sits between noon and 7pm.
This also leaves too little time turn the plane around at LCY for the return flight at 8pm.
If a plane arrives at mid-day, it has to sit all afternoon at JFK doing nothing.
The earliest arrival time at LCY is after 7am. So the earliest departure time erin JFK is 7pm. Plane sits between noon and 7pm.
This also leaves too little time turn the plane around at LCY for the return flight at 8pm.
Aug 23, 2012, 4:42 pm
#69
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BA3: 0800 LCY (SNN pre clearance) 1215 JFK (part refuel) 1315 (departs) 1410 DCA.
BA4: 1715 DCA 1815 JFK (complete refuelling) 1915 (departs) 0700 LCY
It might not be ideal and BA wouldn't be allowed to take passengers on the pure JFK-DCA-JFK itinerary but it would allow them to offer both JFK and DCA as destinations from LCY? I'm sure quite a few people bound for DC would love the possibility to arrive at DCA rather than IAD or BWI!!
(PS: and as long as we are talking about 'practical' airports, did BA consider flying BA 1/3 to LGA instead of JFK?? Am I right to assume that it would be possible with the pre-clearance?)
Aug 23, 2012, 5:04 pm
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Aug 23, 2012, 9:53 pm
#72
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Aug 24, 2012, 2:40 am
#73
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Either way, the situation is not ideal: if BA loses its afternoon pre-clearance, it upsets its plans any way you look at it: (1) keep the flight as it is and you typically add an hour to the pax experience because of JFK immigration and clearance experience (more some days), (2) replace SNN by DUB and you both increase transit time and still need to change your timetables anyway, (3) move BA 3 to a time too near BA 1 and what you are effectively proposing is to double the capacity of BA 1, which is probably not economically viable plus you lose the 'niche' of those who were interested in a late departure without replacing by another niche, (4) move BA 3 in the morning and as others have pointed out, this means the flight 'sits' in JFK for long hours which also costs money (5) offer a flight using 5th freedom rights and it may be hard to levy much money on the JFK-BDA route (assuming enough premium traffic) plus it would be a longer flight and people need to reexit the US after the original pre-clearance, (6) add DCA as an extra stop (sold as LCY-DCA) and you need full cockpit and one cabin crew and find enough people willing to take the two stops outbound including JFK which is frequently subject to tarmac delays, (7) consider moving to LCY-BOS-JFK-LCY? Not sure if the plane could take the direct LCY-BOS (210 miles shorter than LCY-JFK but 190 miles longer than SNN-JFK), it means you need 'proper' immigration and customs clearance rather than the nice SNN service therefore making the overall travel time to JFK longer, plus timings don't work because for people who would board in BOS to do BOS-JFK-LCY the departure would be too early and the stop in JFK far too long for the flight to arrive into LCY past the end of curfew. Basically, I can't see any miracle solution so it's all a question of figuring out the least bad - which could potentially be to suspend BA 3 until planes are available and certified to go to JFK nonstop.
And you are right, landing at DCA is bloody expensive - but that is for a reason. It's as if DC urbanists had tried to think of the most inconvenient airports possible just to ensure that DCA retains a competitive advantage of size
My totally 'empty' guess is that the LCY-DCA part would probably not pay for itself and the DCA-LCY part probably would but that may totally be wrong.
Aug 24, 2012, 2:50 am
#74
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Pax tend to avoid to one stop flight (like the SNN stop) so two stop flight are a bit pointless. I was last on a two stop flight back in 1980-1982. Any onward journey from JFK must be with rights to pick up pax in JFK.
Out of interest, is there pre-clearance in Dublin?
Out of interest, is there pre-clearance in Dublin?
Aug 24, 2012, 4:16 am
#75
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Yes there is, but very much at the same times as out of SNN if I'm not mistaken.
Again, I fully agree with you on two-stops, that's why I think that LCY-DCA would not sell well but I do think the return part (DCA-LCY with the one stop could). As pax can mix and match itineraries (and thus fly LHR-IAD, DCA-LCY) this might be enough to bring extra profit -- or not.
I don't know if the JV has changed anything but unless I'm mistaken BA wouldn't have the right to pick up new pax at JFK be it for a domestic flight or a flight to Canada (the only two version that would be short enough to allow a full same day trip I think). Any trip which BA WOULD be able to sell separately would be 2h30+ each way plus the required stops so in my guess probably not feasible. I also personally think that longer than that and the return one stop would not sell as one stop either.
Again, I fully agree with you on two-stops, that's why I think that LCY-DCA would not sell well but I do think the return part (DCA-LCY with the one stop could). As pax can mix and match itineraries (and thus fly LHR-IAD, DCA-LCY) this might be enough to bring extra profit -- or not.
I don't know if the JV has changed anything but unless I'm mistaken BA wouldn't have the right to pick up new pax at JFK be it for a domestic flight or a flight to Canada (the only two version that would be short enough to allow a full same day trip I think). Any trip which BA WOULD be able to sell separately would be 2h30+ each way plus the required stops so in my guess probably not feasible. I also personally think that longer than that and the return one stop would not sell as one stop either.