Jenbel

I can kind of see this, but your argument does kind of ignore the fact the when you fly BA (or any oneworld partner) you actually have a lot of choice as to where you put the miles. Indeed, in some ways, it might be beneficial for BA to make the EC less attractive to N American flyers if those flyers are predominantly US domestic flyers. They get none of the revenue from the flights, but have to pay for redemptions.

However, the BA product is attractive enough that it doesn't stand or fall by its loyalty programme alone, since it is part of an alliance with multiple earning possibilities, particularly since those who want the BA loyalty programme to be more like AA can actually get their desire - by earning miles in AAdvantage while flying BA now. So if you like the BA product, but don't like the loyalty programme, then find a loyalty programme which you prefer and which fits your needs better. Isn't that what FTers do?

Cap'n Benj

The redemption rates for those travelling from the US to the UK has not changed (if you do not need to connect your flight). The redemption rate for most TATL US-UK direct BA flights has lowered (including onwards to the EU).

You can earn full AA miles on BA. The BA product is deemed by most to be better. Why will BA flights be any emptier?

You can throw out daft doomongering all you like, in reality, this will change very, very little, esp in regards to BA flights to the US. In fact with the intro of the 787, I suspect you'll see a lot more niche (for the want of a better word) destinations serviced

ArizonaGuy

I think you've misunderstood me. There is an unnecessary amount of bickering and insulting going on in this very thread. Much of it stems from geocentric opinion. Some people are positively angry (granted it's primarily those in North America though not exclusively so) and have chosen to behave in a ridiculously immature fashion.

Rantings about the sky falling and nationalistic ravings about a flag carrier serving its own really aren't conducive to rational discussion. Out of the 100+ posts so far, much of it is of little substance because of that. Only 36+ hours later are some people willing to concede that the opposing opinion is not necessarily wrong but merely different and with some merit.

Tangent: Are there any who are pleased with the additive nature of awards involving connections (outside of the UK)? Are we not all negatively hurt by this, save for the few random gems and decreases found so far in those situations? (i.e. LAX-HNL-SYD is less than LAX-SYD, not that you'd find great availability)

BicesterTerrier

Did you read some of the comments under the points guys blog, I think some of the posters are slightly over reacting.

I have read and re-read many of the posts, and there seems to be a few common threads of complaint. Most of these appear to be from NA members who are now going to have to spend more miles on partner rewards. I have always fancied a trip to Bali or Easter Island, but the fact that most of the US seem to want to holiday there on cheap CX or LAN rewards might make me rethink this.

Has anyone actually given any thought to the pressure that OW partners may have put on BA to increase these rates. I am sure CX don't particularly want a premium cabin full of Chase 100k'ers only for them never to be seen again.

Most partner airlines don't even award full mileage rates on economy tickets, if I can only earn 25% of the mileage on a paid ticket with from Europe to South America with LAN or Iberia then why should I be able to burn them at a low rate. If you want to fly CX to Bali or LAN to Easter Island then try earning miles with CX or LAN, I am sure you will get better redemption rates.

Personally I am tired of reading the rants and moans from our NA colleageus, I realise you might have to wait a bit longer for that sunny beach in Bali, but I don't think it's going anywhere.

As for me, I might make that trip to Easter Island after all whilst all the whining yanks are leaving comments on the variousl blogs and licking their wounds. I am sure it will make for a far more pleasant trip.

husseinbadr

Oh, dear! Reigniting the fires . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU. Very naughty of you.

Sydneyjb

As usual an " enhancement " , The dollar cost their charging for a first class ticket for example from PHX - LHR - PHX is around $900.00 USD + 150,000 Avios. The $900.00 is acually more than what is BA's cost for that first class seat. So their acually making money and stealing your 150,000 Avios points.

The program name should be called ADIOS not Avios !!!! Good luck BA but you're not pulling the wool over my eyes. They must think we are all a bit DUMB ! Let's protest !!!

PS ,

PHX - ANC - PHX , was 25,000 RT BA Miles , now it's 75,000 RT Avios , What an enhancement ! Especially when before they changed their program their reservation agents told me numerous times that the domestic partner miles probably wouldn't change !!! Like they didn't know !

Tobias-UK

That may be, but how much would you have to pay for the same flights on a revenue ticket? It's still a bargain in my book.

David-A

Since you have added this point 'on thread':

Are you therefore saying that the interpretation of your post as given by HilFly is the one you intended? And that your reference to 'that logic' was a reference how you viewed the logic used in SRGs post?

BicesterTerrier

We are the 99%! Move on!

Anyone fancy setting up a class action?

ArizonaGuy

There are some definite irrational reactions. As we all know though, the US environment fosters a unique high mileage earning culture from every possible means before ever setting foot aboard an airplane. 500K plus miles annually from credit card churn alone proves that. It is what it is. If BA wish to sign lucrative deals to sell miles to Chase and allow substantial Membership Rewards bonuses, that's BA's own doing. It may be to remain competitive or stand far above the competition in the market but it was BA's choice. Consequently many US members acquired an miles in abundance and rightly wish to redeem for the best personal value. (Ok, many insist on the best possible financial value whether it's of personal value or not which is pure greed and detestable.) To change the program without giving any official idea of how good, bad or indifferent the changes may be until implemented is disingenuous.

If CX doesn't want non-rev award passengers in premium cabins they have inventory management to control that. I can't say with any degree of certainty but I'm of the opinion that CX doesn't care whether it's someone from Kensington and Chelsea or someone from Poughkeepsie, NY.

Give it a bit more time and the US will be right there. I believe DL tried this, or perhaps it was another carrier. The backlash was high but it would seem the writing is on the wall and North American carriers will have to fall in line with the rest of the world sooner rather than later. At least with BIS miles, anyway. It only makes sense to give miles based on revenue, not solely on distance flown.

Sydneyjb

Tobias -UK ,

Still , the nerve of BA increasing the dollar cost by 30% is uncalled for ! Will the others follow suite? We can't let this happen. Especially for the flyers who were saving up to fly first class. Then being told with little notice that they need to pony up more money. This is very unethical. Maybe you can grant us the extra cash if you don't think it's such a big deal.

guv1976

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.601 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)

"PHX - ANC - PHX , was 25,000 RT BA Miles , now it's 75,000 RT Avios"

PHX-ANC-PHX will not be nearly that expensive if you route via PDX, SEA, or LAX (once Avios booking of AS award seats becomes available). More like 34-35K Avios, for the roundtrip (with stopovers at the connecting points, if desired).

Cap'n Benj

There can't be a soul who likes this, it benefits no one. I think the reason that most UK residents aren't too annoyed by it, is the fact that most will use their BA miles to upgrade or with a 2-4-1 voucher, which can not be used on connecting metal anyway.

Both of these uses are pretty much wholly (bar the 3%) unaffected by the changes and are indeed better off on a number of routes (NE USA/ HKG etc) than before.

I think the main reason for the seeming US-UK divide on opinion here is related to how as a body we view FFPs as a whole. Most in the UK (at least those on FT or educated elsewhere) have for some time now seen FFPs not as a place to get free flights but to get BIG discounts on flying premium cabins, whilst those in the US still have the traditional view of FFPs- as getting free flights.

I think once those in the US, esp those in non BA regions, think about their BA miles as we in the main do here, a cheap means to fly in comfort over the Atlantic, as opposed to simply cheap flights they will realise that their pot of Avios is still worth a fair bit to them, as and when they have a means to exploit them.

Taking a random route for eg, you can fly from STL-CDG with BA, upgrading the two TATL legs to business class for around $2,000 for a net cost of about 10,000 miles. Not $ cheap perhaps but considering the full J fare is nearly $5,000 its a massive saving, for a very small outlay of miles.

Cap'n Benj

Your above example has been the case for ages, it is not a result of the recent change. If this was the First Class fare people have been saving up for, then the goal posts have not been moved in the slightest for a long period of time.

The cheapest dollar price for that ticket in around $13,000, I just do not get the mentality of posters who think paying $900 for a $13,000 ticket is a rip off!! I have never actively lived in an age where I've not paid the charges though, that can be the only reason, perhaps in a way I'm lucky, never having known the good ol' days! Sadly with the recent Aeroplan change, it seems that others are going to have to learn the hard way

Tobias-UK

In the example you quoted, PHX-LHR-PHX there has been no change in cost or Avios at all, hence my comment. This really is very good value.

Now on this point I do agree with you. I accept BA had to make changes on commercial grounds and I have no issue with that, but the timing and communication of certain changes is deplorable. In some cases it is not about "little notice" but 'no' notice.

If you read my post linked below you will see my view on this matter.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/17466511-post68.html