BA56 RTO (rejected take off) 30/03/11...
Apr 1, 2011, 12:07 am
#16
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: BA, KLM
Posts: 1
BA56 - RTO- 30&31/3/11-Jo'berg to Heathrow
Linenbasket has given a pretty good account as I too spoke with FO but can add V1 was 166 knots and aircraft RTO'd at 88. The 2nd RTO was about half that speed but don't know exactly.
The crew were extremely professional giving valued support to those passengers who found the situation hard to cope with, either by them being upset or angry. I can understand the trauma but why get angry at the crew!!??. Hells bells we walked away from the thing.......think of the alternatives you angry people!
However, ground staff were thin on the ground on 1st RTO (total shambles) but a little better on the 2nd but it still took 3 hours to get us to the hotel again and we were one of the first off the plane.
Not making a 3rd RTO with BA today so switched to Emerates.
The crew were extremely professional giving valued support to those passengers who found the situation hard to cope with, either by them being upset or angry. I can understand the trauma but why get angry at the crew!!??. Hells bells we walked away from the thing.......think of the alternatives you angry people!
However, ground staff were thin on the ground on 1st RTO (total shambles) but a little better on the 2nd but it still took 3 hours to get us to the hotel again and we were one of the first off the plane.
Not making a 3rd RTO with BA today so switched to Emerates.
Last edited by nofeetdown; Apr 1, 2011 at 12:23 am
Apr 1, 2011, 12:54 am
#18
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kent, UK
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Apr 1, 2011, 1:53 am
#19
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Programs: MUCCI, British Airways Executive Club Gold
Posts: 1,795
My first (and hopefully last RTO) was on a GB Airways A321 at LGW. The speed indicator didn't work properly as we went down the runway so the pilot aborted, forcing a plane to do a go around as the runway was still occupied (clearly audible overhead). Fixed about an hour after with us still on the aircraft by Virgin Atlantic Engineering!!! Apparently cheaper and more efficient than BA's!
Apr 1, 2011, 2:08 am
#20
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: MUCCI
Posts: 833
Apologies if my reply to Genius1 was misconstrued. All I was basically trying to say is that I withheld some information for the sake of clarity, I wasn't aiming to give him a hard time. More haste, less speed in my future postings !
Private apology also sent go G1.
Private apology also sent go G1.
Last edited by Short Final; Apr 1, 2011 at 2:15 am
Apr 1, 2011, 2:09 am
#21
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Linenbasket has given a pretty good account as I too spoke with FO but can add V1 was 166 knots and aircraft RTO'd at 88. The 2nd RTO was about half that speed but don't know exactly.
The crew were extremely professional giving valued support to those passengers who found the situation hard to cope with, either by them being upset or angry. I can understand the trauma but why get angry at the crew!!??. Hells bells we walked away from the thing.......think of the alternatives you angry people!
However, ground staff were thin on the ground on 1st RTO (total shambles) but a little better on the 2nd but it still took 3 hours to get us to the hotel again and we were one of the first off the plane.
Not making a 3rd RTO with BA today so switched to Emerates.
The crew were extremely professional giving valued support to those passengers who found the situation hard to cope with, either by them being upset or angry. I can understand the trauma but why get angry at the crew!!??. Hells bells we walked away from the thing.......think of the alternatives you angry people!
However, ground staff were thin on the ground on 1st RTO (total shambles) but a little better on the 2nd but it still took 3 hours to get us to the hotel again and we were one of the first off the plane.
Not making a 3rd RTO with BA today so switched to Emerates.
Apr 1, 2011, 2:59 am
#22
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: BAEC GGL/CCR & BAEC Lifetime Gold, VS Red, EK Blue, HH Lifetime Diamond, IHG Gold, Marriot Silver
Posts: 238
My only rejected take off was on my 2nd solo flight when doing my PPL. As the aircraft accelerated it veered to the left. Using the rudder or dabbing the alternate brake didnt help...so I stopped and went back to the hanger. My flight instructor told me it was the right thing to do. They checked the aircraft over and off I went again, this time without a hitch. On only my 2nd solo though it was a little nerve-wracking!
Apr 1, 2011, 3:08 am
#23
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 646
Update:
Just to clarify what happened on the first flight (this is based on the conversation I had tonite with the F.O)....we were going approx 88kts at the time, and the left outer engine suddenly lost most of its power due to a fueling problem. As a result of the thrust imbalance, the aircraft veered to the left (very noticeably), which required a load of rudder to correct it, while braking very heavily to bring us to a standstill. Not a great experience tbh, and not one i'd like to repeat.
Aircraft reg is G-BYGE.
Flight was rescheduled for tonite (31st)- same aircraft & crew.
Manic check in, due to there being two BA56s operating within 15mins of one another.
On board (after initially being bussed to, and boarding the wrong aircraft
), get onto the runway, hear the engines spool up, off we go, then hard braking again, and to a standstill on the runway.
Yes, ANOTHER rejected take off - same aircraft, same problem...only with the bonus of a small amount of fuel leaking from the engine this time, so we needed a tow back to the terminal.
Had tonites offloading been as much of a mess as last nite (one ground staff member dealing with hotel vouchers for an entire 744....), I fear there would be a full scale riot in progress. Thankfully tonite was a lot more organised, with a lot more communication.
Later on I was told by the captain that we will be on a different aircraft tomorrow- i presume the one en route from LHR as I type.
The vast majority of passengers- including premium pax moved to the lounge after offloading- were stating they will refuse to fly on it again.
Watch this space...
Just to clarify what happened on the first flight (this is based on the conversation I had tonite with the F.O)....we were going approx 88kts at the time, and the left outer engine suddenly lost most of its power due to a fueling problem. As a result of the thrust imbalance, the aircraft veered to the left (very noticeably), which required a load of rudder to correct it, while braking very heavily to bring us to a standstill. Not a great experience tbh, and not one i'd like to repeat.
Aircraft reg is G-BYGE.
Flight was rescheduled for tonite (31st)- same aircraft & crew.
Manic check in, due to there being two BA56s operating within 15mins of one another.
On board (after initially being bussed to, and boarding the wrong aircraft
), get onto the runway, hear the engines spool up, off we go, then hard braking again, and to a standstill on the runway.Yes, ANOTHER rejected take off - same aircraft, same problem...only with the bonus of a small amount of fuel leaking from the engine this time, so we needed a tow back to the terminal.
Had tonites offloading been as much of a mess as last nite (one ground staff member dealing with hotel vouchers for an entire 744....), I fear there would be a full scale riot in progress. Thankfully tonite was a lot more organised, with a lot more communication.
Later on I was told by the captain that we will be on a different aircraft tomorrow- i presume the one en route from LHR as I type.
The vast majority of passengers- including premium pax moved to the lounge after offloading- were stating they will refuse to fly on it again.
Watch this space...
Apr 1, 2011, 3:35 am
#24
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA Blue, IC Spire Ambassador
Posts: 5,228
High speed aborts are risky- you can get brake fires, and you also are at risk because you'll be applying maximum braking action if it's at say 130kts. V1 is also presuming all of the calculations are correct- I very much doubt an aircraft would perform exactly as advertised in such situations- what if the runway is contaminated more than you're aware of, wind changes, a group of fat fighters on board, overweight hand luggage? There's also the risk to pax and crew if the cabin is not in fact secured. We've seen pictures of broken CW footstools with sharp edges- someone could easily injure themselves. The (old) F cabin is normally strewn with bulky amenity kits, ipads, the odd stray uncollected glass. All of these could become airborne. I imagine if the RTO were due to an engine failure, there'd also be an almighty initial lurch due to asymmetric thrust, before the crew could reject the takeoff and use the rudder to correct this.
Not perfectly safe.
I've never felt a 747 apply max brake, and if I go through life without this then I'll be happy!
I'd bet that it was far more than 'unlikely' the RTO was after v1. The aircraft would almost certainly have left the runway.
Update -ive just read the update posted by the OP. 88kts and a lurch. What about if it were 120 kts?
Last edited by IAMORGAN; Apr 1, 2011 at 3:41 am
Apr 1, 2011, 4:40 am
#25
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 148
Not "perfectly" safe.. but very safe. V1/V2 aren't straightforward figures to work out. The science is pretty sound I'm sure. Braking below v1 is well practiced in a sim. It's like an emergency stop in a car.. you don't just slam the anchors on!! it's a steady increase of pressure on the breaks.
I've had a few aborted take offs in light single and light twin aircraft. Every one has been because of a broken gague.
We have bells and whistles go off when an aircraft misses its approach or rejects a takeoff. Go arounds are often several a day into EGLL aborted take offs.. While I've been on shift.. 5 or 6 a year?
I've had a few aborted take offs in light single and light twin aircraft. Every one has been because of a broken gague.
We have bells and whistles go off when an aircraft misses its approach or rejects a takeoff. Go arounds are often several a day into EGLL aborted take offs.. While I've been on shift.. 5 or 6 a year?
Apr 1, 2011, 5:07 am
#26
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: MUCCI
Posts: 833
What EGLL_Director says.
Perhaps the choice of "perfectly" is the wrong adjective, but in the end, V1/V2 are calculated for a reason.
In the end, nothing is safe, you could get run over by a bus tomorrow.
For those who are not pilots, perhaps a definition of V1 (from the FAA in this instance) will help clarify what is being discussed :
V1 means the maximum speed in the takeoff at which the pilot must take the first action (e.g., apply brakes, reduce thrust, deploy speed brakes) to stop the airplane within the accelerate-stop distance. V1 also means the minimum speed in the takeoff, following a failure of the critical engine at VEF, at which the pilot can continue the takeoff and achieve the required height above the takeoff surface within the takeoff distance
Perhaps the choice of "perfectly" is the wrong adjective, but in the end, V1/V2 are calculated for a reason.
In the end, nothing is safe, you could get run over by a bus tomorrow.
For those who are not pilots, perhaps a definition of V1 (from the FAA in this instance) will help clarify what is being discussed :
V1 means the maximum speed in the takeoff at which the pilot must take the first action (e.g., apply brakes, reduce thrust, deploy speed brakes) to stop the airplane within the accelerate-stop distance. V1 also means the minimum speed in the takeoff, following a failure of the critical engine at VEF, at which the pilot can continue the takeoff and achieve the required height above the takeoff surface within the takeoff distance
Apr 1, 2011, 5:07 am
#27
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Programs: Flying: VA; Buying: AA, AS, AV, BA, UA!
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I had an RTO on a QF 767. Not low speed but probably nothing like 88kt either.
The captain explaned that momentarily all the screens in the cockpit went blank (a generator failed) and he decided to abort. We later departed with the failed generator using a backup system.
The captain explaned that momentarily all the screens in the cockpit went blank (a generator failed) and he decided to abort. We later departed with the failed generator using a backup system.
Apr 1, 2011, 5:11 am
#28
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: MUCCI
Posts: 833
I imagine if the RTO were due to an engine failure, there'd also be an almighty initial lurch due to asymmetric thrust, before the crew could reject the takeoff and use the rudder to correct this.
Apr 1, 2011, 5:23 am
#29
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: MUCCI
Posts: 833
a group of fat fighters on board, overweight hand luggage? There's also the risk to pax and crew if the cabin is not in fact secured. We've seen pictures of broken CW footstools with sharp edges- someone could easily injure themselves. The (old) F cabin is normally strewn with bulky amenity kits, ipads, the odd stray uncollected glass. All of these could become airborne.
The pilots first duty is to fly the plane.
If he's going to be unable to safely fly the plane, and has a good chance of being able to stop in one piece on the tarmac, then I'm sure you would agree what the better decision is.
Although it is ultimtely the commander's reponsibility, the duty to have the self loading freight properly tied down is largely delegated to the cabin crew.
Apr 1, 2011, 5:28 am
#30
Original Poster
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Scheduled for 20:15 tonite now.