Semi-OT: Violent Reaction to Seat Recline - What Would You Have Done?
Nov 7, 2009, 3:32 pm
#196
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8
I am guessing the plane was 100% full, otherwise I would have asked the crew to move me or him. I find it surprising that the crew did not focus on the passenger causing the disturbance in the first place. Given the circumstances I would write to BMI if only to obtain one of their upgrade certificates.
Having been in this situation once or twice I can tell you what my reaction would be. I would get up and address the passenger being a pain in the behind. I am however 1.95 cm and reasonably fit...
I would let him take the first swing and press charges afterwards.
Having been in this situation once or twice I can tell you what my reaction would be. I would get up and address the passenger being a pain in the behind. I am however 1.95 cm and reasonably fit...
I would let him take the first swing and press charges afterwards.
Nov 7, 2009, 3:56 pm
#197
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Pasadena, CA; southwest Michigan; Oxford, UK... (LAX, ORD, LHR)
Programs: AA GLD (sometimes PLT), former Mileage Plus
Posts: 89
This doesn't sound like anything even close to "brew and sue" to me. The belligerent man in the seat behind seemed to be in a pressure cooker completely of his own creation--no brewing necessary!Clearly OP strongly preferred either that the man settle down and shut up all by himself, or that the flight attendant come and settle him down/shut him up involuntarily if necessary--and in that order of preference, to boot. Other alternatives were considered only when those two things, which should have happened, didn't. In no way was he picking a fight here.
Nov 7, 2009, 4:44 pm
#198
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Programs: BA EC Gold
Posts: 9,236
Clearly OP strongly preferred either that the man settle down and shut up all by himself, or that the flight attendant come and settle him down/shut him up involuntarily if necessary--and in that order of preference, to boot. Other alternatives were considered only when those two things, which should have happened, didn't. In no way was he picking a fight here.
And I agree - I do not consider reclining the seat 3 inches to be picking a fight. The gentleman could have asked me nicely to move my seat forward (in which case I would have gladly complied), but he chose to become abusive instead.
Nov 7, 2009, 10:44 pm
#199
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,098
Hi folks - just wanted to share an experience and see how you would have reacted.
Last week I was flying on a BMI flight from a nearby European city (I know, but BA was too expensive!). Flight time was about 60 minutes.
10 minutes in, I reclined the seat about 3 inches, nowhere near fully. The man behind me started pushing the back of my seat quite hard as if trying to force it back to an upright position. I turned around, looked him in the eye, and said evenly "Please quit pushing my seat."
He then slammed his hand into the back of the seat, causing it to jerk forward but then it returned to the original reclined position. I was quite agitated at this point (and my neck was hurting) but said nothing further as I was not interested in starting a fight on an airplane.
A few minutes later after I had calmed down, I found an FA at the back of the plane and told her what had happened. I wanted her to be aware that the man had banged the back of my seat in case something worse happened. She didn't do anything, but she thanked me.
I returned to my seat to find my seat fully upright (the man had raised it in my absence). I reclined it again 3 inches. At this point, he started threatening me ("If you do that again, I'll f***ing slap you mate, you f***ing c**t.") and repeated this or similar about three times.
I bit my tongue (very difficult) because I was really not interested in getting in a fight on a plane over the Channel. I left my seat in the same position because at that point I refused to be bullied into righting my seat. had the man just asked nicely, I would have gladly complied.
The same FA from earlier then walked by. I flagged her and said that the man was now making threats. She again thanked me. The man behind then started to complain about me getting stroppy with him, etc. (completely false). She whispered to me "Would you please just right your seat for the sake of peace?" I had no problem, agreed and kept it upright until the gate.
The head FA (supervisor on BMI?) passed by my seat shortly before landing and said "I understand you've had a disturbance; would you like to come find me after the flight and tell me about it?" I agreed, found him on my way off and told him the story. He apologised to me and said that the only thing he could do was write my name in the flight report if I wanted but it would do no good. I told him not to bother as it didn't seem worth it and I really just wanted to get home. My neck was sore for a couple of days, but it was nothing major.
Personally, I feel no huge sense of guilt or remorse over reclining my seat; I understand and respect that it bothers some people, but there are adult ways to handle this situation and this violent, childish reaction was not one of them.
So my question is this: what would you have done in my place? Would you have reclined your seat at all? Would you have left it reclined? Would you have risked getting hit by this guy? His verbal abuse was so loud that people from 2/3 rows ahead were turning heads. Would I have been partially responsible had he chosen to hit me?
Last week I was flying on a BMI flight from a nearby European city (I know, but BA was too expensive!). Flight time was about 60 minutes.
10 minutes in, I reclined the seat about 3 inches, nowhere near fully. The man behind me started pushing the back of my seat quite hard as if trying to force it back to an upright position. I turned around, looked him in the eye, and said evenly "Please quit pushing my seat."
He then slammed his hand into the back of the seat, causing it to jerk forward but then it returned to the original reclined position. I was quite agitated at this point (and my neck was hurting) but said nothing further as I was not interested in starting a fight on an airplane.
A few minutes later after I had calmed down, I found an FA at the back of the plane and told her what had happened. I wanted her to be aware that the man had banged the back of my seat in case something worse happened. She didn't do anything, but she thanked me.
I returned to my seat to find my seat fully upright (the man had raised it in my absence). I reclined it again 3 inches. At this point, he started threatening me ("If you do that again, I'll f***ing slap you mate, you f***ing c**t.") and repeated this or similar about three times.
I bit my tongue (very difficult) because I was really not interested in getting in a fight on a plane over the Channel. I left my seat in the same position because at that point I refused to be bullied into righting my seat. had the man just asked nicely, I would have gladly complied.
The same FA from earlier then walked by. I flagged her and said that the man was now making threats. She again thanked me. The man behind then started to complain about me getting stroppy with him, etc. (completely false). She whispered to me "Would you please just right your seat for the sake of peace?" I had no problem, agreed and kept it upright until the gate.
The head FA (supervisor on BMI?) passed by my seat shortly before landing and said "I understand you've had a disturbance; would you like to come find me after the flight and tell me about it?" I agreed, found him on my way off and told him the story. He apologised to me and said that the only thing he could do was write my name in the flight report if I wanted but it would do no good. I told him not to bother as it didn't seem worth it and I really just wanted to get home. My neck was sore for a couple of days, but it was nothing major.
Personally, I feel no huge sense of guilt or remorse over reclining my seat; I understand and respect that it bothers some people, but there are adult ways to handle this situation and this violent, childish reaction was not one of them.
So my question is this: what would you have done in my place? Would you have reclined your seat at all? Would you have left it reclined? Would you have risked getting hit by this guy? His verbal abuse was so loud that people from 2/3 rows ahead were turning heads. Would I have been partially responsible had he chosen to hit me?
The moment he uttered a threat..and he did, I would have quietly found the FA, had her inform the flight crew, and requested that the police meet with him upon landing. If the FA did not comply with your request, I would begin litigation against the airline. They are responsible for your safety and security while you are onboard their aircraft.
Uttering threats is serious, and criminal in the UK.
Nov 8, 2009, 1:20 am
#200
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4
Tough call!
Wouldn't it be nice if the guy was a 5' 97lb weakling and you could just look back and glare at him and he would calm down be nice.
There are butts where ever you go. If you fought every one of them, you would soon meet one that was a 97 lb 5 foot twinkie who had just won the world title in a Karate match.
Like you, I would have said something to the FA. When that didn't work, I would have asked to speak the the head FA. If that didn't work, I would have demanded they either take care of the problem or refund my money. The beauty of this approach is you get your flight and probably some compensation in the end.
If not, you blog a real neat site like FlyerTalk and we all vote with our dollars or quid or pounds or pesos or whatever and NEVER fly on that airline.
There are butts where ever you go. If you fought every one of them, you would soon meet one that was a 97 lb 5 foot twinkie who had just won the world title in a Karate match.
Like you, I would have said something to the FA. When that didn't work, I would have asked to speak the the head FA. If that didn't work, I would have demanded they either take care of the problem or refund my money. The beauty of this approach is you get your flight and probably some compensation in the end.
If not, you blog a real neat site like FlyerTalk and we all vote with our dollars or quid or pounds or pesos or whatever and NEVER fly on that airline.
Nov 8, 2009, 1:35 am
#201
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 563
For all we know this was a drunk, psychopathic, serial killer looking for his next victim. Anybody rude enough to act that way might also be seriously disturbed. Escalating a conflict with somebody like this could lead to them tracking you down after arrival and acting violently.
Last edited by DrPSB; Nov 9, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Nov 8, 2009, 2:46 am
#202
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
For all we know this is was a drunk, psychopathic, serial killer looking for his next victim. Anybody rude enough to act that way might also be seriously disturbed. Escalating a conflict with somebody like this could lead to them tracking you down after arrival and acting violently.
Nov 8, 2009, 3:40 am
#203
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BDL, MHT, BOS
Programs: 1k
Posts: 119
I am pretty short and I always recline my seat for comfort. Tall people have plenty more advantages in the world I don't mind that I have a few on them when I fly.
I don't expect people to walk around and sit hunched over just so I can see better.
I don't expect people to walk around and sit hunched over just so I can see better.
Nov 8, 2009, 5:28 am
#204
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Programs: BA EC Gold
Posts: 9,236
For all we know this is was a drunk, psychopathic, serial killer looking for his next victim. Anybody rude enough to act that way might also be seriously disturbed. Escalating a conflict with somebody like this could lead to them tracking you down after arrival and acting violently.
Many people are suggesting that I should have gone to the FA, the supervisor and the captain and demanded that the man be met by police on the ground. With respect, this is far easier said than done. I did go to the FA - twice - and she did nothing other than ask me to put my seat forward. I spoke with the supervisor and he wasn't bothered. Considering that he has to be on my side in order to approach the captain (I wasn't about to start getting aggressive with the supervisor especially about another passenger whom I claimed was being aggressive), it was really difficult to do this.
Indeed, but FWIW, the flight was with BMI, the man was definitely British and the flight was landing at LHR. This definitely would have been a UK justice matter.
Nov 8, 2009, 6:19 am
#205
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, United Kingdom
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold;BA GGL; hhonors lifetime diamond; Marriott lt Gold; IH Plat Amb; Amex Centurion
Posts: 4,739
All I can say on this subject is that Ajax is far better at self control than I would have been. For which I commend him but it is a shame that the man got away with it. It reflects very badly on BMI.
Nov 8, 2009, 7:32 am
#206
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
With respect, this is far easier said than done. I did go to the FA - twice - and she did nothing other than ask me to put my seat forward. I spoke with the supervisor and he wasn't bothered. Considering that he has to be on my side in order to approach the captain (I wasn't about to start getting aggressive with the supervisor especially about another passenger whom I claimed was being aggressive), it was really difficult to do this.
I consider it pretty poor form that neither the cabin crew nor the supervisor was bothered. In fact, if I experienced that kind of disinterest, I'd write to BMI to lodge a complaint about their not taking aggressive passenger situation seriously. This isn't meant as a criticism of your response by the way - I just take this sort of things rather seriously (more seriously than I take a missing sausage from 'English breakfast' that I keep whinging about, about which I have not written to BA!
).You have my sympathy. I think you handled it as well as you could under the circumstance and I also think you exercised your self-control really well to have remained calm.
Nov 8, 2009, 7:50 am
#207
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,098
If nobody onboard took your concerns seriously, you have grounds for civil action.
If you thought they were not going to call the police after this man threatened to physically harm you, you can also call the police yourself on your mobile phone the second the plane touches down, or find someone in the airport when you get off the aircraft but before you and the suspect clear passport control.
Don't confront him yourself. Let the police do it, and make sure anyone who witnessed the exchange of words and the utterance of a threat is also spoken to.
If you thought they were not going to call the police after this man threatened to physically harm you, you can also call the police yourself on your mobile phone the second the plane touches down, or find someone in the airport when you get off the aircraft but before you and the suspect clear passport control.
Don't confront him yourself. Let the police do it, and make sure anyone who witnessed the exchange of words and the utterance of a threat is also spoken to.
Feb 23, 2013, 1:50 pm
#208
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LAS - where you can get married and divorced in the same 24 hour period. Perfect for the woman who's saving herself for marriage and the man who wants a one night stand.
Programs: DL DM, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond, Marriott Platinum, UA, AA, AS, WN kettle, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,613
Boo Hoo Hoo
Everyone wants the cheapest seats they can find and want premium space and service to come with it. You get what you pay for... Caveat emptor.
I assume my seat won't recline and the seat in front of me will recline and I deal with it. When I fly WN that is just a fact of life. Lately I fly less because of security theatre, limited seat pitch, and an increased volume of the great unwashed on airplanes. Add to this an increased sense of self-entitlement and there is nothing fun with air travel.
I've managed to get elite status through buying my way in and I can usually get F or BE for flights either with miles or just paying for it but I realize most people can't do that.
Most people are having a hard time doing what they did a few years ago and that adds to the frustration. They are making less, spending more for necessities and now someone in front of them (or behind them) is taking what little they have left. NEVER get into a confrontation with a desperate person that has nothing to lose - Chris Dorner is a good example of that.
I'm sure I get viewed as a self-centered f**k but I try to avoid contact with most strangers. There is a general and continuing lack of manners and civility in the world (especially the US). The bread lines of the Great Depression of the 30's wouldn't exist today. No one would wait - although the Japanese were polite in the aftermath of the Tsunami. The Carnival Triumph passengers shoved, fought and hoarded food - even though they were all limited as to where they could go and food was getting brought to them from other ships. Plus there was nothing else to do on the ship.
It is all part of a Me First and F**k You - and if you don't like it I'll beat the c**p out of you attitude. Lord of the Flies without a breakdown of civilization first.
Everyone wants the cheapest seats they can find and want premium space and service to come with it. You get what you pay for... Caveat emptor.
I assume my seat won't recline and the seat in front of me will recline and I deal with it. When I fly WN that is just a fact of life. Lately I fly less because of security theatre, limited seat pitch, and an increased volume of the great unwashed on airplanes. Add to this an increased sense of self-entitlement and there is nothing fun with air travel.
I've managed to get elite status through buying my way in and I can usually get F or BE for flights either with miles or just paying for it but I realize most people can't do that.
Most people are having a hard time doing what they did a few years ago and that adds to the frustration. They are making less, spending more for necessities and now someone in front of them (or behind them) is taking what little they have left. NEVER get into a confrontation with a desperate person that has nothing to lose - Chris Dorner is a good example of that.
I'm sure I get viewed as a self-centered f**k but I try to avoid contact with most strangers. There is a general and continuing lack of manners and civility in the world (especially the US). The bread lines of the Great Depression of the 30's wouldn't exist today. No one would wait - although the Japanese were polite in the aftermath of the Tsunami. The Carnival Triumph passengers shoved, fought and hoarded food - even though they were all limited as to where they could go and food was getting brought to them from other ships. Plus there was nothing else to do on the ship.
It is all part of a Me First and F**k You - and if you don't like it I'll beat the c**p out of you attitude. Lord of the Flies without a breakdown of civilization first.
Feb 23, 2013, 2:09 pm
#209
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: City of Kingston Upon Hull
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 4,940
Semi-OT: Violent Reaction to Seat Recline - What Would You Have Done?
I suggest that the Mods lock this thread, it is over 3 years old and is only likely to provoke tears like the other recent reclining threads.