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Difference between BA's Coat of Arms and a Royal Warrant?

Difference between BA's Coat of Arms and a Royal Warrant?

Old Jan 20, 2017 | 12:53 pm
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Difference between BA's Coat of Arms and a Royal Warrant?

Interesting to discover that BA doesn't actually hold a Royal Warrant. The BA “To Fly To Serve” crest bares a very similar design to that of HM The Queen crest and gives the false impression they do. I am not sure how much flying the Royal Family does with commercial airlines such as BA and ones by the state such as the UK Government and RAF, but looking on The Royal Warrant Holders Association website they state, the reason why a company or individual might lose a Royal Warrant if
"The quality of the product or service is not up to standard. The product or service is no longer manufactured or available. The goods or services are no longer required, or orders have dwindled."
https://www.royalwarrant.org/frequently-asked-questions

Have they every held a Royal Warrant or are they even number one choice for the Royal family?
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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 12:56 pm
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Originally Posted by icegirl
Interesting to discover that BA doesn't actually hold a Royal Warrant. The BA To Fly To Serve crest bares a very similar design to that of HM The Queen crest and gives the false impression they do. I am not sure how much flying the Royal Family does with commercial airlines such as BA and ones by the state such as the UK Government and RAF, but looking on The Royal Warrant Holders Association website they state, the reason why a company or individual might lose a Royal Warrant if

https://www.royalwarrant.org/frequently-asked-questions

Have they every held a Royal Warrant or are they even number one choice for the Royal family?
I would be surprised if they'd ever held a Royal warrant. Using commercial aircraft is a fairly recent adventure for the Royal family.
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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 12:59 pm
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Originally Posted by icegirl
Interesting to discover that BA doesn't actually hold a Royal Warrant. The BA To Fly To Serve crest bares a very similar design to that of HM The Queen crest and gives the false impression they do. I am not sure how much flying the Royal Family does with commercial airlines such as BA and ones by the state such as the UK Government and RAF, but looking on The Royal Warrant Holders Association website they state, the reason why a company or individual might lose a Royal Warrant if

https://www.royalwarrant.org/frequently-asked-questions

Have they every held a Royal Warrant or are they even number one choice for the Royal family?
I think you may be making an assumption that the BA crest was deliberately designed to hoodwink people into thinking they held a Royal Warrant. I would find that hard to believe.

I've no idea if BA ever held a Royal Warrant, but if they had lost it recently I'm sure it would have been in the news, and certainly picked up on here.
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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 1:05 pm
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I think that's a bit misplaced. BA arranged for a Coat of Arms from the College of Arms back in the early 1970s, as many UK companies do - all the banks, local authorities, sports clubs. It's not a terribly exclusive club, dob the Heralds 18k (or 6K if a citizen) and a coat of arms will ensue. I vaguely recall that Air Canada has a coat of arms too, for the Heralds the sun still doesn't set, though I may be mistaken on that one.

The BA one has been modernised, but it's been on BA's aircraft a long time. I don't imagine many Brits - in so far as they consider these things - would think BA has a royal warrant, any more than the London Borough of Newham has a royal warrant. Both have coats of arms.
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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 1:07 pm
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I also do not know if they ever had a Royal Warrant, but likewise I doubt it. If my memory serves correctly I do seem to remember some hullabaloo over BA not wanting to pay for a share of the Jubilee celebrations.
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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 1:07 pm
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Originally Posted by icegirl
Interesting to discover that BA doesn't actually hold a Royal Warrant. The BA To Fly To Serve crest bares a very similar design to that of HM The Queen crest and gives the false impression they do.
I have difficulties to see a "similar design". Otherwise all emblems are similar design. I've never see more in the "to fly to serve" crest than a fancy way to display a slogan.
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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 1:15 pm
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Originally Posted by HilFly
I would be surprised if they'd ever held a Royal warrant. Using commercial aircraft is a fairly recent adventure for the Royal family.
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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 1:15 pm
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Here are the two for comparison purposes. I personally can't see a definite similarity.



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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 1:17 pm
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The Royals used to travel long-haul with No. 216 Squadron, Royal Air Force.
"in 1955 the squadron moved to RAF Lyneham from RAF Fayid in Egypt to operate the DH Comet jet airliner until 1975." In those happy days we had a dedicated 'Shiny Fleet' VIP long-haul squadron of Comets at RAF Lyneham!

My beloved iWife was Squadron Adjutant in those glory days, and also enjoyed travelling with Princess Alexandra to Brazil. The aircraft captains were very experienced, and descent from cruise was imperceptible [house rules] and could start literally hundreds of miles from destination. "Doors" time was a matter of honour... to the minute! She recalls taxying at a serious speed to meet that criterion.
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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 1:20 pm
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Originally Posted by HilFly
I would be surprised if they'd ever held a Royal warrant. Using commercial aircraft is a fairly recent adventure for the Royal family.
I'm sure the royal family haven't needed website hosting until recently, yet Pulsant hold a royal warrant for just that!
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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 1:25 pm
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Sir Richard Branson, who had the advantage of a more expensive education than moi, is on record, in his book The Virgin Way, of saying that he had mulled over having coat of arms for his Group. He even decided on the motto: ‘"Ipsum sine timore, consectetur’", which being the BA forum I won't need to translate.
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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 1:26 pm
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"Him without fear, Minneapolis" ?????

Good one, Google Translate
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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 1:36 pm
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
Sir Richard Branson, who had the advantage of a more expensive education than moi, is on record, in his book The Virgin Way, of saying that he had mulled over having coat of arms for his Group. He even decided on the motto: "Ipsum sine timore, consectetur", which being the BA forum I won't need to translate.
Well screw it! I'm not going to do it and translate that.
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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 1:46 pm
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
I vaguely recall that Air Canada has a coat of arms too, for the Heralds the sun still doesn't set, though I may be mistaken on that one.
The College of Arms' jurisdiction is England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and any other commonwealth realm that hasn't set up its own heraldic authority (Canada has - the Canadian Heraldic Authority under the Chief Herald of Canada). The College of Arms also grants arms to individuals of English etc descent living in countries with no heraldic authority - principally to Americans.

Note the lack of Scotland from its jurisdiction. That comes under the Lord Lyon King of Arms. Whereas the English heraldic enforcement authority, the Court of Chivalry, is virtually moribund (hasn't sat since the 1950s), the Lyon Court is very much an active court with its own procurator-fiscal (prosecutor in Scots law).

When BA adopted the Landor livery in the 80s, it was noticed that BA's grant of arms from the College of Arms had never been "matriculated" with the Lyon Court, which meant it was illegal to use and display the arms in Scotland. The story I heard (which may be apocryphal, but which I heard directly from the man who noticed the discrepancy and notified the Lyon Court about it) was that the Lyon Court threatened to send men with sledgehammers to GLA and EDI to physically destroy the illegal arms on the BA aircrafts' tailfins, unless BA promptly coughed up the Lord Lyon's matriculation fee. BA did.
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Old Jan 20, 2017 | 1:51 pm
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I actually like that "loosely" translation as I found it. It is a good motto.
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