Which FF program to replace DC for you?
 

Now that it seems that we really are facing the closing stages of Diamond Club, might it be a good idea to have a dedicated thread where people can discuss what options might be best for them?

As there are many of us with different circumstances (number of miles, how we could earn miles - flying or otherwise, base location, flying patterns, whether status/redemption possibilities are priority), if more people can add data and discussion points (and, perhaps, links to key threads on other subforums that others may not be as familiar with) this could build up to a useful resource in its own right (and not be buried in other discussions!)

So here's my situation:

Winding up DC:
I'm sitting on about 130k miles, which could be burned for 3 TATL trips for Mum to visit in the next year in C using C&M (that, with the return OW I still need to book for her upcoming trip, should clean us out if need be).

Initial speculation re. BAEC:
The family account option is attractive, but C&M has been our favoured burn route for seats in C.
C&M doesn't seem to be anything as good an option with BA, but it's still there - but I gather MFU is the thing to aim for with BA?

Flying habits and other earning potential:
Relatively modest compared to others on here, I'm sure ;)
We're based between YYZ/BUF.
Mrs Sofasurfer usually has 2x intl work trips each year (Paris and China confirmed for 2012)
Annual family trips include 2-3 in North America (usually Florida for in-laws, indirect flights ex-BUF have been a great earner for us!) and at least 1 TATL.
I think there's a BA credit card in Canada and transfer options with RBC and Amex points, so scope there to top up.

Redemption or status?
Redemptions in C (using C&M) were our preferred habit in DC.

We don't fly enough for status (I dropped back to Blue, Mrs Sofasurfer is Silver (Little Miss Sofasurfer will hit silver if we do one more flight before DC ends!) so the family has possible status matches to BA that might be useful.


Other thoughts:
Living in Canada, Aeroplan is the immediate choice for *A - but none of us are likely to hit status (but A3 is the no-brainer - *S has value in NA in terms of avoiding bag fees, at least).
Thinking of Alaskan for non-*A miles earn/burn (to at least consolidate non-*A flying, as AS seem to have arrangements with OW and ST members , in spite of not being part of an alliance themselves). Don't think they have family membership, though.
LMS is 5 years old, has a M&M JetFriends account (before family accounts existed in DC) with about 8k and I don't think these miles start to expire until she hits 18. Not sure which other FF programs are particularly child/family-friendly?

There is a thread on Talkboard to support the A3 forum.
I think A3 will be the FFP of choice for those *A flyers who need a relatively low threshold for gold, as I mentioned in my post on the above thread
And there is even a plus which is very decent earnings for European Airlines which is not the case with DC.

The downside seems to be redemption (well, vs DC they all struggle)

GBM

US Airways for me, but I am not looking for status. Only C redemptions

Award mile requirements doesn't seem to be bad at all. However the mileage accrual with other *A-partners than US Airways, US Airways Express carriers, US Airways Shuttle and United, Continental Airlines and Lufthansa seems a bit low(150% in business?)

*A? I'll have to think about that. I'm hoping Diamond Club's customer base is sold to BA and becomes part of BAEC (preferably with miles intact). I've already been flying a lot with BA in the last year, specifically to avoid the dreadful SAA on my trips to Harare!

Any suggestions?

I have 600k in family accounts, only ever fly in my own aircraft (I run a microlight school, not a Lear Jet!) apart from redemptions, and gain miles from credit card spend and miles purchases.

Love cash and miles for redemptions.

Presume I should gain by getting bonuses for opening new CCs - such as BA ones? But difficult to spend on Amex.

Having done no deep analysis I intuitively turn to AC since I usually make 1 or 2 revenue trips to the US per year in Y and find them the best for comfort, enjoy lounge in CA while transiting, like doing US immigration in CA, etc. And they have reasoably low requirements for *G.

Status is probably more important to me than rewards. I travel infrequently enough to not easily get premium tier on most programmes, but often enough to appreciate getting shower and breakfast in lounge at 5am, pre-booking seats that I like, glass of wine on the return, *G check-in, etc.

As a family of 4 it is pretty hard to get the points to a level where we can all head off and enjoy something in C. It's hardly worth redeeming in Y. Currently sitting on 300k DC destination miles after 6 years of collecting from flying, credit cards, Hilton, etc. May do a 'tactical' burn on some Euro C flights.

I'll try and work out a way of comparing earn/burn on programme XX if you typically fly on YY that takes into account the various fare bucket awards...

Although LHR based (only 25 mins away for a 6am departure :rolleyes:) I've always assummed that the BA programme would not work very well for me, but I'll do a retrospective on where it would have got me this year in status, and the value of miles for redemption.

If you are UK based, you need to be practical. Do you earn enough miles from flying alone to support your redemption goals? If you've got a family to fly, almost certainly not.

You therefore need a programme which allows you to earn in other way. This may mean one that has a UK credit card (United, M&M) or that allows Membership Rewards transfers. Lufty has been quite good in Germany with non-flying earning routes - it remains to be seen if they improve their UK efforts when DC is gone.

Remember that *A status matches are fairly frequent, although you often need to use a false address in another country to get them! I have had Star status, Silver or Gold, since 2005 entirely through status matches - although, of course *A Silver is no good for lounge access except when flying the airline which issues your card.

You also need to remember to compare the miles earning chart with the miles needed for status. 20k for Gold may sound low, but if you only earn 1.25x for J and nothing for low-price Y tickets (as a made-up example) then it may actually be tougher than getting status with an airline requiring 40k but giving 2x for J and 1x for cheapo Y.

Also worth remembering that some *A airlines give more than 1 years status. Asiana and M&M offer nearly 3 years of Gold status if you qualify at the right time of year, for eg - I think Thai does too.

Currently I feel my option is to get a job that pays well enough to allow for the outright purchase of Business Class travel all-year round...I don't think that's going to happen any time soon though!

Indeed I feel A3 will get alot of business from the demise of BMI. Its a great program for quick status and retaining it also. Thats my choice. Im already Silver with little effort. Nearly hitting Gold.

My only worry is that A3 is too good to be true. If a lot of members sudenly start using A3 for status and elsewhere for crediting miles, I could see them changing the program. It seems some of the T&C are vague, so there may not be a lot you could do if they want to change.

This could easily happen as once you have status, there is no real reason to keep crediting to them as burn rates and change rules are not so good

How is it too good to be true? I can't see anything on the program that is "too good to be true"?

I agree that the program is rather weak regarding the earn/burn ratio and spending options. So I would recommend it only if someone primarily cares about status. For collecting miles, it is a waste of money/miles. Therefore there is nothing about the program that is too good to be true.

Any views on the United FTP? Pros and cons?

I initially wrote-off A3, however looking at the detail and compared to my own flying habits, it doesn't seem too bad.
I tend to fly BD, SQ and LX.
If BD are out of the equation, then it's mostly SQ and LX.

A lot of programmes will not credit 100% mileage for SQ's W fares, whereas A3 do. SQ flights are usually long, so this would make a big difference.
Similarly, with LX, some only give 100%, 125% or 150% for LX's P fares, whereas A3 give 200%.

My main concern with A3 is currently the ability to book one-way awards and include stopovers. I get the impression from the T&C's that stop-overs are not permitted.

TK however seem a little similar, even if the *G qualification is higher.
They do one-way awards but at 60% of the return price and no stopovers permitted on one-ways. No stop-overs on open-jaw tickets either.

I assume A3 is in a financially unstable position, however I probably trust them a bit more than I trust TK.

Based on what Raffles said above, if you're UK-based the UA Amex offers 1 mile per £1.

This is either a pro (earning something is better than nothing) or a con (there are other cards which offer more miles per £1 out there) - depending on whether your glass is half empty or half full.

Con: you actually need to fly United 4 times.

Since the US tends to be my most frequent destination outside Europe, I've been concentrating on UA for the last couple of years, and am about to make 1K for the second time. For 1K level it's a pretty good bet particularly if you fly mostly economy and to North America a lot. Below are the main points from my point of view -- lots more one could say:

Pros: 100% earning on almost everything; fairly low *G qualification (50k miles); very wide network now that joining with CO. 1k level is attractive with 6 system wide upgrades (also usable on single LH segment on day of travel if you get a paper certification 14 days in advance). Low taxes/fees on redemptions (e.g. z3-z1 o/w Y is 30k miles + £1.50) . Extra availability for elites. E+ on UA flights (extra legroom). Unlimited domestic upgrades (but don't hold out much hope if you are lower level gold). C+M sometimes available.

Cons: The lower *G levels will have reduced bonus miles from next year -- only 1K level still gives 100% bonus (only on certain airlines though). No domestic lounge access (unless same day international flight). International mileage upgrades on UA require co-pay except for YB. Class of service bonus not as good as DC (varies by booking class and airline). No soft landings - i.e. no gold->silver even if don't fly at all. Now requires minimum 4 UA/CO segments p.a.

What do people think about AC? My primary concern is to get *G fairly economically (but I'm not sure I trust A3's future perhaps) and I want Domestic US lounges, which makes the US programs unattractive...though that said, with my UK AmEx Plat Priority Pass I probably have pretty decent lounge coverage in most cases anyway so maybe that's a false concern and UA might actually be a good bet for me, especially now I am based in SFO. E+ would be a nice benefit, plus the benefit of getting treated better on one's home airline - and I could (in a month or two when I've a better history built up!) get a UA CC. I already have a US AmEx so AFAIK UA remain a MR option too.

Hmmm.

AC introduced a minimum AC metal requirement of 10K or five segments this year so may not be so easy for UK or European based BD members to earn STARGold or even STARSilver.

TK's FFP is far more better than A3 in my opinion and what comes to "reliability" of an airline i wouldn't even compare these two against each other because they are clearly playing in a different league. Not to mention the economic crisis in Greece.

no kidding. 49.2% is owned by the gov't.
TK has expanded like crazy in last few years - and is a worldwide recognized airline flying to 5 continents. A3 is a small regional player.

In 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 THY carried 17 million, 19.7 million, 22.5 million, 25.1 million and 29 million passengers with total revenues of US$2.23, $3.0, $4.5, $4 and $5.6 billion, respectively

A3 i think would be the natural choice but their earn rate is pretty variable. I have built up status with UA and I like it for the UDU, the earn rate and MFU. Its not a perfect program - copay for MFU and 150% and the cut in bonus to 50% from next year but it works. I will also miss the ability to use lounge access when travelling domestically, as I did just this with my DC card here in Denver now. I guess some of it also depends on what BA does, what travel patterns we have, and what others in *A do to status match.

To that end, TK is doing pretty well and possibly in the future won't need to be as attractive to it's customers as A3, the smaller player, needs to be...hence I just can't but help think TK would devalue/"enhance" their programme in a year or two's time, once they move from the growth stage to maturity,
i.e. just as one build's up a reasonable amount of miles to use.

do you guys honestly expect 20,000 miles for Star Gold to last long?

Speaking for myself, of course not.

I notice TK provide Gold for two years.

To clarify....assuming lots of people decide to use A3 for status only, and some other program for accruing all miles after the first 20k. Then A3 are likely to move quickly to change the program as the costs would be very high unless they also get the benefit of being paid when members credit miles.

The restrictions such as no changes allowed once redemptions are ticketed are very severe with A3. If anything happens, you lose your miles :(


DC was profitable for a long time due to the fact that some very high earners in *A were crediting miles to the program.

So I think that the *G for 20k will not last for long....

A3 is a safe bet for a long time to come so switching to them is the best option for quick status. They have a medium size but great product to various European cities. They are closely alligned to LH and reliable.

Does anyone know whether any of the other schemes work on membership years rather than calendar years, for status?

I'm about to fly two return trips to the US in Y, so could easily earn 20,000+ miles for that, but there's not much point in me pushing that many status miles into a calendar-year system like United or AC.

I could go Aegean but the first flight, at least, with them, is only 50% miles at current fares.

TK offers a personal membership year rather than calender.

For a frequent flyer i don't see A3 earn/burn ratio attractive at all. If one is struggling with even reaching *A-Gold status it could be useful.

In my opinion star alliance should not have any member who are offering Gold-membership under 40 000miles or even less. This devaluates the whole program and the services/benefits are getting fewer and fewer. You can witness this by example looking one of the "Red Carpet Club" lounges in US. Sad.

it's not a good example because RCC access is a paid service in the USA and anyway it should be better.

Pros

Elite members get a redeemable earning bonus on some airlines in higher cost ticket buckets (from 2012 this covers almost all ticket buckets on UA/CO). On United redemptions you do have the option of increasing the miles you pay by 100-125% and virtually guaranteeing redemption availability. Elites are exempt from baggage fees. There is a mileage earning credit card (Amex) available to UK members.

Cons

Redeemable mileage earning is lower than BD (typically 150% for business). Only Elite members earn minimum 500 miles per flight. Number of non-earning ticket categories within Europe and within N. America is higher than with BD (although the number of intermediate earning - 25%, 50% - is fewer). Saver redemptions (i.e. normal redemptions with restricted availability) require about 60-70% more miles than BD for business, economy is marginally more (in effect therefore the number of C class segments flown on most airlines other than UA to earn a C-class redemption is roughly double BD). UA*G requires 50k miles (although this is a Con, there isn't really anything better than this except A3 and BD of course). UA*G does not provide lounge access in US unless flying internationally the same day.

I agree with your concern, but I think the statement of 40'000 is overly simplistic. You ignore the earnings portion.
DC is a great program for C and F earnings. And Y with the American partners.
Terrible for an European Y LH/LX flyer.

Here is a practical demonstration of what i mean above:

Take DC vs M&M, 2 respective Silver members are trying to go for Gold.
They fly mostly Intra Europe LX/LH Mid Y fares (V, G, S, Q, T, W).

DC earns 300 per segment. Gold at 38k. 38'000/300= 127 segments needed for Gold
M&M earns (750+188). Gold at 100K. 100'000/938= 107 segments needed for Gold

So a ~3 times higher threshold for gold requires ~20% less segments than the "easy FFP".

GBM

Yes of course is the balance of earning / threshold. What im after is that when there's too many members the benefits are going to go downhill.

Any US Airways Dividend Miles user here? Pros and Cons? Mainly looking for J-redemptions from Europe to rest of the world. No credit card. Only flying in business and not flying with LH metal. Burn-ratio seems quite good..

This is against Terms and Conditions, and a contact of mine at A3 said that if this gets out of hand, they will start deleting accounts which violate this policy.

I think TK would be the best option for me.

However, does TK operate with calendar year OR 12 consecutive months?

Terms and conditions of what? You can use one program for status and another one for mileage accrual. Nothing wrong about it at all.

Personally, I don't care about the status because once UA/CO has tallied the lifetime miles it will make me a lifetime *G.

I have used BD extensively for awards that are not possible using more traditional programs i.e. HAV-YYZ-GRU-JNB-ABJ. Not sure if there is a program that allows the same level of flexibility?