Thanks

Egyptair is a poor man's Turkish - similar earning rates, other than that 75% SQ W (ouch!), but slightly higher redemption rates from Northern Europe

Ahhh, I hadn't twigged that Air China was in kms... And the slowness of the website was putting me off... Back to the drawing board - although, while it is more generous than other Asia-based FFPs, its earn-rates are generally still lower than the Western-based schemes. Cheap redemptions though - including on CX

It's on my PC at home, so I can email it tomorrow if anyone wants... However, it is not at all exhaustive, and probably no use to anyone but me - also, after the first few programmes, you quickly get the idea, and if it was worse than the previous ones, I didn't bother to document

But the general principle is that you only need to check:
1. Where you are mostly likely to earn big (for me, discounted business, plus TG Q, SQ W and UA W - no point checking what you'd earn on short Eurohops)
2. Where you would most like to spend (for me, EU-SE Asia and EU-Oz/NZ, business class)
3. How to get to *G (and e.g. difference between miles and PQM on UA)
4. Non *A partner airlines earning and benefits, in case they sway you

...and that is all you measure the FFP by

I prefer to say that you did a rational analysis of which *A programme best suit your needs. That's how I describe my own work :D

[/quote]
Whichever way I look at it, A3 is coming out tops right now. Funnily enough, not because of the 20k *G, but because it offers the best combination of earning (200% premium classes incl discount C) and burning (only TK is cheaper for EU-Asia in C class, and it is the same price as TK and UA for EU-Oz/NZ). TK came a close second, and UA was a surprise third. Put it this way, I'd happily be status matched into any of these (HINT!)[/quote]

My guess : you're flying business mostly and couldn't care less about the myriad of Eco fare that concern the fabled part of the plane that's rumored to be behind the curtain?

I'll point you to this thread were the financials of Aegean were discussed. Basically, it's an airline, it's in Greece, but it's not in a bad shape and it's a regional airline from a popular tourist spot. We're used to BMI so we know not to park huge amount of miles in case something happens...

It's my opinion, though, that the current mileage requirements are a legacy of the time when it was an unaligned. Without longhaul earning opportunity, and a grand offering of THREE lounges, they had to be generous for their frequent fliers. It may change in the future (but not to quickly not to infuriate their domestic user base). On the earning/burning front, I guess it's ok : the redemption chart is rather good, but earning are disappointing for many cheaper fares so it won't be attractive to many flyers.

I don't fear an influx of cheap elites abusing the *G status. If they credit to A3, the program will be in the same situation as DC. If they don't, expect the qualification criteria to change. If they become more stringent, it won't change your analysis (as you fly certainly enough to qualify anyway), but if they introduce minimum segment on Aegean, we'll be out of luck.

[/quote]

Incidentally, to summarise other programmes I looked at, in approximate order of attractiveness:
[LIST][*]UA is more attractive than i remembered, with OK earn (lots of variation - discount C on LX for 175% was a nice little outlier) and good burn rates, but the US lounge access issue negates the additional benefits of US domestic travelling (upgrades, etc)[/quote]

Plus, you need to fly 4 segments on UA metal to gain status (I didn't check your location before answering this post : if you're not in the US, it may be difficult).

Status bonus miles
 

Am I right in thinking that A3/OZ don't have bonus status miles (the 35% we were used to as BD*G)?

Given that BA have 100% bonus miles for BA Golds, that looks tempting (although won't help us with status).

Er, we've never had bonus status miles either!

Errooops. I meant bonus destination miles, or whatever they are called with BA/OZ/A3... presumably 0% vs 100% makes the BA programme very attractive compared with the others? (Although, as I say, useless for status.)

You're right : A3 doesn't have an executive/elite bonus at all. OZ does have, a 5% to 20% according to status, but on their metal only.

It does make BA more attractive from an earning point of view. For example, a flight to SIN in I with BA will earn you, as a BAEC Gold, 33,715 miles, while a flight in Business in Z with Swiss, crediting to A3, will only get you 26,972. On the other hand, you should also look at redemption rate. To get one of those business flight to SIN, you'd need 140,000 with BA, while you only need 100,000 with A3. So it's a free flight every 4.15 with BA vs every 3.70 with A3. Obviously, award charts aren't exactly identical and you need to do the maths for your travel pattern and redemption pattern and Tesco addiction, rather than just considering earning rates.

At some point, as A3/OZ and BA aren't in the same alliance, you should consider also how they cover your target area. They overlap partly, but one is bound to serve your needs better than the other.

With BAEC you get already as a Silver 100% bonus or not??

Yes, 100% for Silver AND Gold.

So what about TAP? Granted they require 30k miles for silver and 70k miles for gold, but it is probably the only one of 2 *A carriers (plus Aegean) that still offer minimum 2x for all C Class tickets (except SQ where it's 3x) and 3x for first (except UA where it's 2x). Any experiences with TAP Victoria/opinions?
AX

But the redemption chart ist not that generous.

Check this thread for full benefits.
Quoting myself from that thread:
Probably the 2 best features of Victoria for Gold card holders (GCH) flying TP metal are the 50% bonus miles and 50% of status miles (of flown miles) and the companion ticket at 60% of the miles.

Now the downside:
It's based on flown miles, no minimums which is horrible if you're based in the middle of Europe doing short hops. Even if you fly C.

Overall it's a very rewarding FFP for premium pax flying TP metal flying longhaul.
And it's hell if you fly cheap-Eco shorthaul, especially TP metal (as low as 10% earning on flown miles). Bizarre. Oh, LIS-MAD is the positive exception.

I fly a couple of times a year TP cheap-Eco and I don't even credit those flights to Victoria. The last went to A3.


Compared to DC they all look terrible to me :D.
But I agree with the statement, specifically to *A redemptions. 410K for a F ticket from the middle East to Australia. They must think they are SQ flying Suites on A380's.

GBM

Upon reviewing FFP info and my travel plans for next 12 months I decided to go to A3. Reasons for:
- 200% earn rate on C class fares, including dreaded Z
- Upcoming Z class flight UK-Mexico on United (26k status miles) which shall land me in A3 *G
- Upcoming several US domestic trips in Y (need status for bags and lounges)
- Planned to fly to Greece anyway so barring bancruptcy I have plans to redeem A3 miles on their own metal in next 12-18 months.
AX

Apologies, I've managed to get through just 10 pages of this thread :D . Hopefully it hasn't already been done

I wonder if there's any kind of table out there that compares the various *A Programs, listing their attributes side by side for easy comparison.


I'm new to this. Not much of a heavy flier... Had a BMI credit card but never earned that much on it. As such I'm more interested in making an eventual redemption than any kind of status, i'm after my miles lasting a long time (it'll take me forever to get enough to be able to redeem them) and the ability to earn off any *A carrier. I suppose I should look at earn/burn ratios, but I'll always be flying in the cheapest economy option possible.

I already have membership of the TAP and TAM programs, but I've never used them. If I fly anywhere, it'll most likely be to the US or to Brazil. Looks like US Airways could be the one for me. (Flew once or twice a year on US Air when I was younger...never saved the miles, damn)

as gurus will say :) tell me where do you want to go today (oops - think it's microsoft ad :))... what I wanted to say is that choice of FFP nowadays is entirely dependent on what award you are saving your miles for and what you flying patterns are (and also whether your planned award will be for economy or business class).
for miles lasting for a long time - best insurance will be to take miles earning credit card - as typically your miles will not expire as long as you have it (there are some exceptions).
If you want to fly to Brazil, I'd check if US is flying there. US is the infrequent (nowadays) exception that will not charge you arbitrary taxes (fuel surcharge) when you book award travel with them.
AX

What about TK? What are they like?

Yep, I shall research.... my flying patterns are, uhhh, not often :/... US Air does from to Brazil, but as I'm based in the UK I'd be hoping to redeem on TAP/TAM/whoever to get there.
I have a US bank account so I suppose I could conceivably get a credit card from US Air, but not sure that'd be any use to me here

I liked the A3 earning and spending rates. However, they have one rule that won't work for me.

You cannot change award tickets. If you need to make a change you need to first cancel it first and forfeit 50% of the miles from cancelled tickets. As my schedule sometimes changes, this restriction does not work for me.

this may happen with other carriers as well - unless you are top tier with them, cancelling tickets will result in re-deposit charge I think I paid once $150 per ticket.
depeding on what tickets you cancel, forfeiting 50% of the miles may be close to this number.
AX

Have you some specific examples, other than thinking you may have paid $150 per ticket once with an unspecified airline?

With BA, it's £15 per ticket online (£0 for golds).

compare *aliance FFP
 

I try to find a new *aliance FFP ( due to the fact, oneworld not cover my needs ).

My biggest problem with oneworld is award availability, which is basicly not given in business class to BKK/SIN and ultra rare to HKG as well. And as we fly more than 90 % betwen Europe and Thailand and onward, I need a FFP which has the best earn / spend ratio flying Europe Asia in business / first revenue as well as award. So I compared how many paid business class flights I have to make for a same free ticket.
( lets say the basic distance distance 100% = 6000 miles, 125% = 7500 miles , 150% = 9000 miles 200 % = 12.000 miles

LH M&M gold 225% rt. 27.000 miles
single award 135k 1 : 5
SEN partner award ( we usually could use ) 101k each 1 : 3,9

TK M&S gold 150 % rt 18.000 miles
normal award 140 k 1 : 7,5
saver award ( only on TK, not sure about availability ) 70k 1: 3,75 )

OZ 125% = 15.000 miles
award 15.000 rt. flights 115k 1 : 10

AC I see no bonus for flying paid C/F 100 % = 12.000 miles
105 k 1 : 9

US 125 % = 15.000 miles
BKK 90k in C 110k in F 1:6 and 1: 7
HKG 80k in C 100 in F 1: 5,3 and 1 : 6,4

so from ratio LH and may be TK looks the best.
but I don/t know much about aditional status bonus miles
also have to keep in mind that US sells massive milage through promos for aprox 1750 US$ per 100k, but with a possible merger with AA, US could be the next airline leaving *aliance.

Mostly 70% we fly on TG ( but them poor earn spend ratio, not makes it worth to join them FFP ).
The rest I would say goes to LH, LX and SK
If there is someone here, who knows something better, please post and I will update my original post. Also experience with status bonus would be nice.
I know US gives up to 100%, but only on flights on US and may be LH.
So it's defenetly up to each flying pattern and noone can say which FFP is the best for all ( exception of course was our loved DC ) :rolleyes:

Unless you're flying in "discounted" business class on or after 1 September, of course: 175% for a SEN or HON in Z and just 125% in P.

I really wouldn't go with TK
 

[deleted]

I don't get how you reach 225% : you're flying 70% TG, so there is 200% for Business class on any fare bucket and no Executive bonus, or LH/LX 30% of the time and you'd get a 25% bonus but 100%-200% depending on fare. So if you're flying 70% TG, and all your flights in Z on LH/LX, you'd get an average of 23,100 miles per round trip. If you were flying all your flight in full fare business, your average would be 24,900.

The award/paid flight ratio would be 5.42 to 5.84, dropping to 4.37 to 4.06 if you can generally find companion awards to your destination.


Aeroplan is stingy, but not that stingy. The COS bonus is 25% for Business and 50% for first on Lufthansa and Thai (among many others). The true ratio is 7.0.

You didn't mention A3: is it a deliberate choice to avoid the programme of a very small airline that could go the way of the bmi?

Their earn/burn ratio would be 4.58, better than LH unless you're sure you can score companion awards more than 75% of the time.

Indeed. One should calculate as you did for their planned flights and redemption goals.

Miles and bonus is aegean's frequent flyer programme, so you are asking to spend A3 miles via TK, to which they have responded that they do not permit...

Yep, I just saw what I wrote - so apologies (post deleted before your reply)

But my point still stands that they don't seem to have a great grasp of English, which means that redemptions may be a bit tricky.

It is all greek to me!!!

indeed we mostly 2 or more, so mostly could use partner award ( if availability on LH/LX is given ).
I thought in M&M a paid flight on TG C,D,J,Z credits 200 % + 25 % for SEN, so totally 225% ( or Iam wrong ? ).
The first pax needs 135k + partner needs 67,5k = 202,5k for 2 pax

6000 * 2,25 = 13.500 * 2 = 27.000 ( in real it comes more to 30k )
So using SEN partner award it would be less than 4 paid flights for 1 free.

ANA also not that bad, earn factor 150 % and award flight until 14.000 flown miles cost 90k. Also here I not have any clue about status bonus.

TAP has good earning rates, but the free flights are simply to expensive.

Another question would be, that some FFP's not charge fuel YQ ! I think US does not. Together with the oportunity to buy miles, this also not that bad.

You get the SEN bonus (executive bonus) on LH-group flights and on US carriers : Adria, Air Canada, Air Dolomiti, Austrian, Brussels Airlines, LOT, Lufthansa, Luxair, Swiss, United, US Airways.

So no, you don't get 225% on TG, you get 200%. Also, you don't get HON points on TG flights.

Elite members get a 50-125% status bonus on ANA and United flights. You wouldn't benefit from it when flying LH/LX/TG.

And the very important Croatia airlines :D

And the bonus start as of FTL, not only as of SEN.
Adds up when getting from FTL to SEN

GBM

Eg. UA: http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...ticketing.aspx
Canceling your trip and re-crediting miles $150/$125/$100/0 depending on status.
Similar for AA (waived for EXPs)
Needless to say that even for BA if you cancel less than 15 days before deaprture you progressively lose part or all your miles
AX

Needless to say you need to add a reference.

My wife just cancelled BA flights far less than 15 days before departure and the confirmation promised that all miles would be refunded.

EDIT: They're there already. Same day credit, too. :)

Usually, when asking for reference, checking the T&C of the program will give information on what to expect. T&C on BA's website.

Apparently, the poster above mixed cancellation penalties for non-flight reward and flight reward.

OK, but I wondered whether the poster may have had additional info because what s/he posted looked wrong.Thanks for clearing this up.

Ok, I see. So only 200% on TG with M&M.
Do you know a progr. which gives status bonus on TG ?
Or any sugestion, which is the best progr. for people flying mostly in J/A TG, and little in Z/P LX/LH ?
Want to redeem on TG/LH/LX/SQ I or O between Europe ( Germany and Asia ( incl. Thailand )

TG doesn't give it to their own elites. I am not aware of any that do. The most generous programs aren't, anyway.


LH (if using the companion award) and A3 seems to be the better programs in your case. I'd say LH is better suited if you're sure to get (and renew) SEN status.

There's a 200% earn rate at the moment, attractive for someone (like me) who flies Z Class a lot on LH group flights. But this rate is being reduced soon for Miles and More members. My past experience is that these changes soon get passed on to other *Alliance programmes, to stop, in this case, a Miles and More member earning more by crediting his LH group flight to another FF programme. So, expect the earn-rate on LH group Z flights to come down very soon in Miles and Bonus as well.

Okidoki, I get your hypothesis. But what's the solution? I asked on the LH board, and nobody can seem to think of a decent programme for LH Group Z class flyers

Many economy fares on LH earns more with other Star programs than with M&M as many airlines that give Elite bonus on their own metal also gives them on LH's metal. Even in Business, an M&M elite would get 225% when flying C, D and J. He'd be better off crediting to Dividend Miles. He'd be Chairman's Preferred and get 250% on LH C.

Of course you could be right, if LH becomes more stingy it could be replicated by other programs, but each program's balance is slightly different.

I still don't get how so many people like A3 when a simple date change on award ticket means you have to cancel and rebook and lose 50% of the miles each time?

Do you rarely change dates?