Hi FT'ers. 2 years ago the folks on the China boards helped me plan a 16 day vacation in China. It turned out great, and I even met up with some of them in Beijing. This year I have a vacation planned to Indonesia for a first visit. I'm looking for suggestions on where to go, what to see, where to stay, and hiring guides/drivers as we are not taking a tour.

Here are my travel specs:
arrive DPS from CX 785 @3:00pm on Aug. 16
depart CGK on JL 726 @ 10:10pm on Sept. 1
These are award tix and doubt they can not be changed at this point. It took a lot of work to get them.

I thought maybe 6-7 nights on Bali split between 2 different locations, one of them Ubud. Then fly to Java, to Surabaya or Malang. Hire a driver/guide for the week working our way to Yogyakarta. We'd fly JOG-CGK on Sept. 1 to hook up with the JL flight home that night.

We like temples, villages, art and culture, cooking classes, snorkeling. Borodubur and Prambanam are on the must see list. We are both very fit and able to do some hiking and outdoor activities. I do not have a need to see Bromo at sunrise like it seems everyone who goes to Java does. We do not usually stay in 5 * hotels unless they are a bargain. Nice hotels with local flavor will do.

I hope some of you who have visited Indonesia before can help me make this vacation trip a great one, like the trip to China was due to the help from FT'ers. Thanks in advance for the advice.

Well, if you don't want to go to Bromo. You probably want to skip east java (Surabaya, Malang) and go straight to Yogyakarta.

I'll just list the place to visit in Java,

East Java:
Kawah Ijen - Active volcano crater, 2 hour hiking trip, 8 hour drive from Surabaya, near Bali. They do have half hour flight Surabaya-Banyuwangi which would cut your time. You should be able to visit watu ulo beach n sukomade beach (seeing seaturtle laying eggs)

Bromo
Madakaripura waterfalls - near bromo

Sarangan lake - near the border between east java and central java, you can hike to mount lawu when you're there.

Central Java:
Borobudur
Prambanan
Dieng Plateau

West Java:
Tankuban prahu crater
Kawah Putih crater

This is an itinerary for Java suggested by a driver I've been in touch with:

Aug 22 fly to Surabaya – transfer 3 hours to Bromo – Stay LAVA VIEW BROMO.
Aug 23 Bromo Adventure – Malang – Stay at VILLA DEDAUN BATU MALANG.
Aug 24 Malang Tour Water Fall – Drive to Blitar – Stay TUGU HOTEL BLITAR.
Aug 25 Blitar – Anak Kelud Volcano – Stay RUMAH TURI SOLO.
Aug 26 Solo – Drive to Borobudur – Stay MANOHARA BOROBUDUR.
Aug 27 Borobudur Tour – Dieng Plateau – Stay BERG VIEW MAGELANG.
Aug 28 Magelang – Yogyakarta City Tour – Prambanan Temple – Stay RUMAH PALAGAN
Aug 29 Free and Easy Yogyakarta – RUMAH PALAGAN
Aug 30 Airport transfer – afternoon flight – connect to Jakarta – overseas

Leaving out going to Bromo, does this sound doable? I have 2 more days, Aug. 31 and Sept. 1 since this was suggested. It would all be done by car.
The hotels listed were his suggestions. I may go with other ones that I find on my own. I hear the Phoenix in Yogyakarta is a nice hotel.

It looks doable but pretty packed out and physically tiring, also seems like lots of time on the road vs the stops. For me it would also be too many one-night stands in hotel after hotel. But it's really up to you. If you decide to forego Bromo, or if one of the volcanoes around it decides to start erupting so they close off access during the time period you're there, then putting the extra time in Surabaya is not a bad idea in order to avoid messing up your subsequent prearranged itinerary. I am baffled why Surabaya gets short shrifted (or a bad rap) in guidebooks. I had planned Surabaya just as a transport junction but liked it enough that I decided to stay a couple of days. The Sampoerna factory (and cafe) is great, as is the free tour around Old Surabaya they sponsor. I also enjoyed the Zoo (and I usually avoid most Asian zoos like the plague)--good place to see Komodo dragons and interact with the friendly Surabaya natives. I stayed at the Mercure Surabaya on Jalan Raya Damo and thought it good value for money. (Their food was good and so was their spa/massage).

I have stayed at the Phoenix Hotel in Yogya and liked it a lot. Great breakfast, good spa, though a bit pricey. The rooms are not huge but are very comfortable and the ambience and service is nice. I don't know the Rumah hotels. I also think the Manohara at Borobudur is a good choice due to convenience. It's clean and comfortable enough and the grounds are nice, but definitely not anything close to luxury and I can't recommend the food (but elsewhere in the village are other options).

Bali for 6-7 nights in two different locations (one of them Ubud) is perfect. So keep that part.

jiejie: I was afraid an itinerary like this had too much time in the car driving. I also don't like changing hotels every night, would prefer to stay put for at least 2 nights and do day trips from one location. The distances don't look that far between cities but I know the roads are bad and erupting volcanoes are always a possibility.

What about an itinerary that has 2 nights Malang, 2 nights Solo, 2-3 nights Yogyakarta? Have you been to Malang; is it worth stopping in? I was reading an extensive trip report on Fodors by a woman who just spent a week in central Java
http://www.fodors.com/community/asia...n-to-jogja.cfm

This is the first Java itinerary suggested to me by the driver/guide. I haven't been able to find much info about some of these places and why one would go there.

Trip B: Bali – Java Island
Day 6 Bali - pick up at the hotel in Bali and drive to Ketapang in Java Island.
Day 7 Kepatang – Take Jeep to Ijen for Ijen Crater Trekking (3/3 KM one way)
Day 8 Ketapang – Kalibaru – Plantation Tour
Day 9 Kalibaru – Bromo
Day 10 Bromo – Batu (Malang)
Day 11 Malang – Kediri
Day 12 Kediri – Solo
Day 13 Solo – Borobudur
Day 14 Borobudur – Yogyakarta
Day 15 Yogyakarta
Day 16 Yogyakarta – Fly to Jakarta – Connecting JL to Tokyo

He claims it's not much driving each day, but I don't know about that. I know there are trains between Surabaya, Malang, Solo, and Yogya also. I see they are quite inexpensive in executive class which is air conditioned.

Susie, I can't tell you firsthand about Malang but have heard it's a very pleasant place. I had planned to go to Malang/Bromo on my Java trip in Feb 2010 coming from Yogya and heading afterwards to Sulawesi (via flight from Surabaya). However, I was there during rainy season and once in Yogya, had a Bromo and Malang forecast of nothing but rain and low clouds/fog for days on end, which made the Bromo area volcanoes practically unviewable, and therefore Malang as staging area a non-starter. So I scuttled the long road trip over there and just went from Yogya to Surabaya directly. At least I wasn't there in late 2010 when Bromo started erupting! Still remains on my future to-do list.

Solo could be done as a long daytrip from Yogya, they're only about 1.5 hours apart by road. And per my friends, usually a day is enough for most people. I cancelled my day + overnight stop at Solo at that time for three reasons: 1) I found Yogya town interesting enough to want to explore some more; 2) For me, Solo didn't sound all that unique enough vs Yogya to make it worth packing up and heading over; and 3) Solo had some safety/security issues at that time, particularly for foreigners. I'm usually fairly intrepid but thought it best to give it a miss at that time. I haven't kept up but things hopefully are OK now and especially if you have a local guide/driver.

The more I look at the driver's proposal, the more I think it's just too much "butt-in-car-see-Indonesia-from-the-window" time vs meaty sightseeing. You may want to consider flight from Malang to Yogya (if such a thing still exists) or get driven Malang to Surabaya and fly or train to Yogya. Then base out of there for at least 3 nights + 1 at Borobudur + 1 final night at Yogya. Included in that is 1.5 days for Yogya city and Prambanan, 1 day (likely mid afternoon to mid-afternoon of next day) at Borobudur, and if you want, a daytrip to Solo and back, or to Mt. Merapi/villages and back. Maybe scrap the Dieng Plateau unless your research tells you it's high on your list of interests. This probably means 2 drivers--one for the very east part and one for the Yogya area. But that's probably better since each one would be a local that knows his own territory better. Malang to Yogya is a long way. I sandwiched my Borobudur stay in between some Yogya nights and it worked out fine. I checked out of the Yogya hotel, had them hold most of my stuff, and took just a day/overnight pack to Borobudur, arriving middle of afternoon to get an hour-ish of time on Borubudur (Manohara guests could get free access to Borobudur after 4 pm I think, via the back gate). Overnight, sunrise "tour" 4 am-8 am. Back down for breakfast and a 2 hour nap, left Manohara by noon, back to Yogya to recheck-in to hotel around 13:30 or so.

I don't think the first itinerary suggested by the driver is any great shakes. It breaks up the road journeys into something more manageable but then shortchanges Yogya, IMO.

ETA: I've done train between Yogya-Surabaya. Got the ticket 2 days before travel, eksecutif class, at Yogya station. A/C and I found it reasonably comfortable. If you want to do the train Surabaya-Yogya, which isn't a bad plan at all and only costs about USD 15 per person, let an agent or your hotel procure it. Indonesian ticketing offices at the station can be chaotic and time-snarfing (and I say this in comparison to China rail ticket windows!). Solo is on the rail line on the way from Surabaya to Yogya, if you decide to make a stop there.

Hi Susiesan, I made some changes to your itinerary. I eliminate Malang/batu from your trip. There's not a lot to see there. Probably some tea plantation. Malang/Batu is just one of city in high elevation ground which usually local people like to go for relaxing and escape the heat. I think Sarangan is much better place to visit than Batu.

Trip B: Bali � Java Island
Day 6 Bali - pick up at the hotel in Bali and drive to Ketapang in Java Island.
Day 7 Kepatang � Take Jeep to Ijen for Ijen Crater Trekking (3/3 KM one way)
Day 8 Ketapang � Watu Ulo beach, Sukamade beach
Day 9 Sukamade � Bromo
Day 10 Bromo - Madakaripura waterfalls - Sarangan lake
Day 11 Sarangan lake
Day 12 Sarangan lake - Solo
Day 13 Solo � Borobudur
Day 14 Borobudur � Yogyakarta
Day 15 Yogyakarta
Day 16 Yogyakarta � Fly to Jakarta � Connecting JL to Tokyo

Day 10 will be your longest trips, you'll most likely arrive at midnight at Sarangan lake, thus Day 11 will help you recuperate while you enjoy the lake and mountain sight. Lava view Bromo was the best hotel in bromo 2 years ago when I went there.

I disagree with the above on the overall balance of Bali vs Java. If you are flying from the USA on Day 0 and arriving in Bali on Day 1, you shouldn't consider leaving Bali for Java before a full week is up (i.e. on Day 8). There's LOTS to do and see on Bali and I don't mean sitting on the beach....though of course that's available if you want. There's nothing on Java on this list that warrants shortchanging Bali, IMO. That includes Borobudur and I say that as a "temple freak" and professional architect. And Java culture isn't remotely as interesting as that of Bali.

The suggested Java itineraries kick in after spending 6-7 days on Bali. But I can stay on Bali as long as I like-I have no set time I have to leave that island other than by Sept. 1.
I'm planning this vacation in 2 parts, one part Bali, trip A, which will use a different guide/driver and one part Java, trip B, where a second and possibly third guide/driver will take over.

9Benua: I really do not ant to be driven across Bali, on the ferry, and then driven across Java. That was the guide's initial suggestion. I would rather fly from DPS to Java, to Surabaya or Yogyakarta, or Malang to save time. Costs to fly domestically in Indonesia appears to be inexpensive.

Here's 2 itineraries from a tour company, Exotissimo:
Day 1 arrive Yogyakarta overnight Yogya
Day 2 Yogya-Prambanan-Yogya overnight Yogya
Day 3 Yogya-Borobudur-Candirejo overnight Yogya
Day 4 Yogya-Kertosono (train)-Kediri-Mt. Kelud-Malang overnight Malang
Day 5 Malang-Mt. Bromo-Surabaya overnigt Surabaya
Day 6 Surabaya-fly to Jakarta for JL flight

or
Day 1 arrive Yogyakarta afternoon overnight Yogya
Day 2 Yogya-Prambanan-Yogya overnight Yogya
Day 3 Yogya city tour overnight Yogya
Day 4 Yogyakarta-Borobudur-Candi Rejo-Ambarawa overnight Losari
Day 5 Losari Plantation and Gedong Songo overnight Losari
Day 6 Losari- Solo-Sukuh Temple - overnight Blitar
Day 7 Blitar - Penataran Temples - overnight Malang
Day 8 Malang-Surabaya overnight Surabaya
Day 9 Surabaya-airport to fly to Jakarta for JL evening flight

I could do something like this in reverse I imagine if the timing were better Surabaya to Yogyakarta.

This tour company seems to have some interesting itineraries that could be combined to make a 7-8 day trip:
http://www.lintangbuanatours.com/

Could you give me your opinions on the suggested places to go in central and East Java? I may be trying to be too ambitious in doing too much in just one week and should maybe stick to either central or east Java alone this trip.

So after more research this past weekend I'm thinking to limit the Java portion to the area Yogya-Solo-Magelang. I really don't want to be viewing Indonesia from a car window. I want to be out and about walking, seeing temples, hiking some, visiting museums, and of course some shopping. I prefer to stay in each location at least 2 nights before packing up and moving on changing hotels.

Here is a sample itinerary that looks like it would work with some tweaking and additions:

Day 1 Arrive SOLO � YOGYAKARTA (L,D)
Meeting service at Airport in Adisumarmo-Solo, then visit Prambanan Temple it's the biggest temple complex in Java. With 224 temples in the complex; three of them, the main temples are Brahma Temple in the north, Vishnu Temple in the south, and the biggest among the three which lies between Brahma and Vishnu temples is Shiva Temple (47 meters high). These three ancient masterpieces of Hindu architecture are locally referred to Prambanan Temple or Lorojonggrang Temple. Afterwards, proceed to Yogyakarta for check in. Evening program, seeing The Ramayana Ballet
Day 2 YOGYAKARTA CITY TOUR (B,L,D)
After Breakfast at Hotel then visit : Sultan Place officially named the " Kraton Ngayogyakarta Hadiningrat ", a grand and elegant example of Javanese architecture, "Tamansari" Water castle, Museum Chariot and Kota Gede. After Lunch at local Restaurant; continue to Kasongan, Bringharjo and Malioboro sight seeing as the ultimate program, and then drive to Borobudur for stay in Manohara Hotel, the closest hotel to Borobudur temple.
Day 3 BOROBUDUR SUNRISE (B,L,D)
Enjoy the wonderfull Sunrise in Borobudur Temple early in the morning. After Breakfast at Hotel, depart to Solo. On the way, stop at Mendut Temple and Kaliurang to see the scenery of mount Merapi and if you are lucky you will see the Lava fall down from the top. Drive to Solo and stop at local restaurant for having lunch. Arrive and stay overnight in hotel.
Day 4 SOLO TOUR (B,L,D)
After Breakfast at Hotel, then visit: Mangkunegaran Palace � Solo, Cetho Temple the erotic temple and Sukuh Temple. Lunch will be provided in local Restaurant. Back to the hotel at noon. Evening, transfer to local restaurant for having dinner.
Day 5 Transfer Out (B) to ?

Any ideas of sites or places to visit in these areas?

I love the Maharphiti hotel in Surabaya and the old Hyatt in Yog. I believe your plans are hellishly busy but no doubt suit you. I flew once from Paris through to Bangkok then onwards to Denpasar only to catch the next flight to Surabaya. I was absolutely dead. It took me a full week before I started to function properly, but I think you sound a lot younger than I. I like the idea of you using a city as a base, I would encourage you to use Garuda to fly between Cities as against driving. Travelling north and the east of Denpasar is delightful, here you find the sort of places right on the sea shore with waves breaking on black pebbles, whilst around the headline there's a pristine sandy beach with a food stall right on the beach cooking cockles. I would love you to see the old Maharphiti, take a car up to Candi dasa one day, spend a couple of days in Ubud. I do all the old temples, Siem Reap and Bagan are like Disneyland to me, so I am positive you will love Indonesia. If you can afford it fly busuness class on Garuda once or twice, they totally spoil you, very much like Thai.

We are not that young, 58 and 63, but we are very genki (healthy). We do like to keep busy on a vacation. We don't use them to relax but to learn new things and see new places. We always need a vacation from our vacations. It is going to take us 32 hours of traveling to get to DPS. Maybe we should stay on Bali longer to decompress and get over jet lag, tour around Bali, then spend less time on Java. These are the decisions I have to make since once I buy domestic plane tickets for Indonesia I'll be locked in to the time amounts in each place.

I won't need business class on Garuda as we are flying to Indonesia in F on CX and home in F on JL.

Having been to Cambodia, to Siem Reap spending 5 days there visiting temples and having a fabulous time, is why I wanted to go to Indonesia.
Do you think I'm making a mistake skipping Mt. Bromo? It seems like going there would use a minimum of 2 days of travel time. We will have just been at the Grand Canyon and national parks in Utah in April 2013 so Bromo might be a let down in comparison.

It seems your Yogya-Solo-Magelang will suit your need if you're interested in temples. You can add Dieng plateau and parang tritis beach on your list as well.

East Java is not famous for Temples. I agree with you, you'll probably be disappointed comparing it with Grand canyon.

I have received 2 price quotes from Yogya travel agencies for the 4 night trip above.

One quotes this:
Cost per person is:
- Single traveler USD 650
- Sharing Twin USD 491
Cost include:
- Private AC car
- Driver, Fuel, Parking and entrance fee
- English speaking tour guide in Borobudur and Prambanan temples, Sultan Palace.
- Breakfast at hotel
- Ramayana Ballet performance
- Tax and service charge
Not Include:
- Lunch and dinner

The other quotes this:
For this tour, we will charge you Rp. 3.690.000 for the car.
Do you need a guide for this trip? It will be Rp 4.940.000 in total.
It includes the car, driver, fuel and parking fees.
It excludes entrances, hotels and meals.

There is about $335 worth of hotel expenses at published rates before any discounts I might find. What do you think of he cost for a 4 day trip like this?

Well, I'm not sure about costs, it seems expensive but hard to know exactly what they are pricing. Also, I'm not quite getting why this 4 days is structured this way. Given the possible road routings, it seems they have you going from Borobudur to Solo by way of Yogya. If you will arrive at Yogya airport by 15:00, it seems to make more sense to rearrange this tour:

DAY 1: Arrive Yogya (Adisuscipto-Solo Airport), car pickup directly to Borobudur and drop at Manohara Hotel. Evening in Borobudur village. If you get into Yogya earlier...say around 13:00, you'd have time to get on the monument in the late afternoon also for a different view/feeling.

DAY 2: Borobudur for sunrise. Breakfast, then car pickup for nearby Mendut Temple (won't take long) and Kaliurang village for Merapi viewing. Back to Yogya for check-in to hotel, lunch. Afternoon sightseeing which frankly, you can do on your own. What's of interest is fairly concentrated and can be seen on foot, or with a becak (like a cyclo/autorickshaw/etc) ride.

DAY 3: Prambanan, just get a taxi from hotel. This only takes about 3 hours even done leisurely. More sightseeing and shopping (Yogya is one of the better places for Indonesian handicrafts but watch out for the schlocky fake "old" batiks), evening Ramayana ballet. Doable on your own.

DAY 4: Early rise and breakfast, car to Solo either with guide in tow, or get a guide for the day meet you there. I think you'll find that anything of interest in Solo will fit in that day. If you examine the Solo part of the itinerary you provided, you'll see there's not that much "meat" there.

DAY 5: Transfer to Solo airport (not Yogya) to fly out.

Hotels would be 1 night at Borobudur, 2 at Yogya, 1 at Solo. If you want to fly out of Yogya on Day 5 instead of Solo, then just make it 1 night at Borobudur and 3 at Yogya, and do Solo as a daytrip on Day 4. Solo is also easily accessible by train if the times work for you. I find it hard to believe that flight options out of Solo are better than those of Yogya.

In summary, my inclination would be to do my own hotel arrangements directly, do meals and entry fees on my own in real-time, and contract only for the private car with driver services for JOG-Borobudur, Borobudur-Yogya via Merapi, and Yogya-Solo-Yogya as a daytrip. If you want an English-speaking guide for the major sites (Borobudur, Prambanan, Sultan's Palace), it's really better/cheaper just to get one of the official ones at each location.

I don't have on-point comparison information for you, but in Feb 2010 for 4 days in Yogya and Borobudur (extra Yogya day but no Solo), I spent USD 65 for entry fees and on-site guiding (including the sunrise Borobudur tour) and transportation. Double it for two people = $130. Substituting in private car/driver where I used public transport and taxis instead, add another $100, then multiply by guess factor 1.30 to allow for inflation and dollar devaluation, and I calculate about USD 300 for two people excluding hotel and food. I didn't use an overall tour guide and I didn't use a guide at Prambanan. I didn't do the evening Ramayana Ballet but saw an afternoon performance instead. You might have a few extra entry fees at Solo but order of magnitude would be small.

Maybe this can be another data set you can use to calculate out whether components are better or package is better. Assuming $300 for 4 nights of hotels (should be able to get some discounts), $120 for food for two (could be cheaper), $300 per my calcs for entries/transport, $50 for misc, and you get $770. Which sounds better than 491 x 2 = $982. I think the car-only quote and car + guide quote are also high, goodly profit built in there.