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Old Jul 6, 2010 | 2:00 pm
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Burma or Laos?

Which place has more interesting things to see? I visited Yangon for a day and Ngapali (a beach town) for few days last December and loved Ngapali. For my next trip to Asia at the end of this year, I would like to see more of a unique places again. Been reading about Bagan and thinking of going but no solid plans as of today. But, after reading what people posts about Laos or Cambodia, I'm now curious on whether I should go check out those places instead. I've been to Kuala Lumpur, Singapore (which is pretty similar to KL but a lot cleaner) and Bangkok (hot and chaotic with tourists). Any suggestions on where to head next? Thanks!
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Old Jul 6, 2010 | 6:32 pm
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I haven't been to Myanmar in a few years, but loved it when there. The people are great, food not so much. Travel isn't easy, but isn't too much of a problem. They aren't on the financial grid so you need to bring money with you and exchange on the black market.

Laos is also a great country, changing quickly as money comes in. The food is generally wonderful, the people fantastic and always trying to enjoy life.

Cambodia is a love or hate relationship for most people. I'm on the latter side. If you want to be convinced to come here I'm not the one you want information from.

I've been to all but one province in Laos and would choose to explore more of Myanmar, but would be happy traipsing around Laos yet once again.

What are you looking to do? When are you looking to go?.... that might go a long way to determining your destination.
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Old Jul 7, 2010 | 1:37 pm
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Originally Posted by dsquared37
I haven't been to Myanmar in a few years, but loved it when there. The people are great, food not so much. Travel isn't easy, but isn't too much of a problem. They aren't on the financial grid so you need to bring money with you and exchange on the black market.

Laos is also a great country, changing quickly as money comes in. The food is generally wonderful, the people fantastic and always trying to enjoy life.

Cambodia is a love or hate relationship for most people. I'm on the latter side. If you want to be convinced to come here I'm not the one you want information from.

I've been to all but one province in Laos and would choose to explore more of Myanmar, but would be happy traipsing around Laos yet once again.

What are you looking to do? When are you looking to go?.... that might go a long way to determining your destination.
Mostly sight seeing and experience the culture. Already booked the flights and I should be in Singapore on X'mas day. Have you been to Bagan? How does it compare to Angkor Wat? Looking to check out some ancient towns as well. Never been to either places.
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Old Jul 7, 2010 | 5:54 pm
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I've been to all the places you've mentioned. You can't really go wrong with either, it depends on your mood and expectations. Bagan and Angkor in Cambodia are both worthwhile and astounding, but completely different kind of sites and feeling. As far as Burma vs Laos, Burma has more in the way of "sights" and a lot more variety of cultures and subcultures. Laos is more of a state of mind--I'm not sure how else to put it--with maybe a single must-see of Luang Prabang. After LP, most people have differences of opinion on what their #2, #3, etc. is in Laos. It's just a smaller country all round.

Perhaps one important piece of information you left out: how long is the trip? What you saw in Burma (Yangon and Ngapali) doesn't begin to scratch the surface. If you're coming from very far away (i.e. not SE Asia), I generally don't advocate trying to "see" some of Burma unless you have at least 2 weeks, and 3+ is better. This is due to 1) so much to see; 2) infrastructure and transport connections that are relatively inefficient in a country that is not tiny, and 3) some hassle in planning logistics, money etc that scream out for making a visit there long enough to be worth the upfront planning time investment.

Laos is more doable as a make-it-up-as-you-go kind of place, as once inside, it's usually easier to find empty seats on planes, or use the internal buses on mostly OK roads. Two weeks would be OK to fill, a little bit less could at least see 2-3 places on a circuit, including Luang Prabang.

Without knowing much else from you, I'd tend to recommend Burma. With 2 weeks, you can fly into Yangon, overnight then fly upcountry doing a Bagan (3 days), Mandalay AREA (not just city itself, 4 days), Inle Lake/Taunggyi (3 days, Heho is the airport you want). Plane routes are basically a loop that will determine order of visit. For a bit of a ground view, do the Bagan-Inle route overland, takes a long day drive to Kalaw (2 days) then couple of hours to Inle when you continue. That's about 2 weeks if moving steadily. Do not schedule transport tightly, allow some slack in the itinerary. Any last minute time can be killed in Yangon or nearby Bago. With a third week, you can stick some beach time in, but you've probably already seen the best of it at Ngapali. Alternatives to the beach are: Sittwe/Mrauk-oo (plane then boat, allow 4-5 days min for this trip out of Yangon) OR Kengtung region in Shan State, accessible by air only--one of best remaining places in SE Asia for unspoiled hill tribe visits (allow 4 days incl in/out via Heho). OR SE by road--Mawlamyine, Karen State, Kyaiktiyo. Extra days can be added in the Mandalay area for Monywa or Pyin--oo-Lwin (Maymyo), each can be done by long daytrip but more rewarding as at least an overnight.

For most independent travellers to Burma, it's generally best to make contact in advance with a reputable local (non-junta) company in Yangon and have them make arrangements and itinerary. Generally, they can deal with advance bookings and payments by credit card or transfer by using Thailand or Singapore as their banking "front." This will enable you to cut down on the cash USD that you cart in with you. Again, Burma is completely off the financial grid so NO cc's, NO ATM's, NO travelers checks.
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Old Jul 7, 2010 | 9:12 pm
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jiejie has a very comprehensive writeup but one thing I question is this:


Originally Posted by jiejie
.... Kengtung region in Shan State, accessible by air only...
Is it no longer possible to access this region overland from the border at Mae Sai (Thailand)/Tachilek (Myanmar)? Not that OP has time to bother with this, just wondering.
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Old Jul 8, 2010 | 12:11 pm
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Thanks for the input guys. I'm planning to be in Myanmar for about a week only. And, it'll be around late December. As of today, Bagan is the only interest because I don't know where else to go at this point. Thinking of going back to Ngapali again as I loved how the beaches are quiet and less crowded (compare to the ones in Thailand). But, yea, appreciate the suggestions.

P.S- This album made me wanna check out Bagan, btw. Have you guys been on such balloon rides? Does it worth it? http://www.flickr.com/groups/balloon...an/pool/page4/
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Old Jul 8, 2010 | 10:04 pm
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Originally Posted by kan148

P.S- This album made me wanna check out Bagan, btw. Have you guys been on such balloon rides? Does it worth it? http://www.flickr.com/groups/balloon...an/pool/page4/
I was staying at a hotel adjacent to the fields where balloons were taking off. In the early morning light, while out for photos, it did look like a nice trip- to be above the din. However, the price was a bit more than I could bare.

December should be a good time for Bagan. The monsoons dissipate in October and the brown temples against the greenery would be nice. I was there in March/April and it was parched and sweltering. Still loved it though.
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Old Jul 9, 2010 | 9:02 am
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Originally Posted by dsquared37
I was staying at a hotel adjacent to the fields where balloons were taking off. In the early morning light, while out for photos, it did look like a nice trip- to be above the din. However, the price was a bit more than I could bare.

December should be a good time for Bagan. The monsoons dissipate in October and the brown temples against the greenery would be nice. I was there in March/April and it was parched and sweltering. Still loved it though.
Exactly what I was hoping. Which hotel did you stay?

Cannot wait.

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Old Jul 9, 2010 | 6:17 pm
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Originally Posted by kan148
Exactly what I was hoping. Which hotel did you stay?
A $20 no frills walk-in. The name long forgotten.
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Old Jul 11, 2010 | 3:03 am
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Originally Posted by dsquared37
jiejie has a very comprehensive writeup but one thing I question is this:




Is it no longer possible to access this region overland from the border at Mae Sai (Thailand)/Tachilek (Myanmar)? Not that OP has time to bother with this, just wondering.
Sorry, I was talking about accessing Kengtung from inside Myanmar, which for as long as I can remember, has been allowed only by air (for foreigners).

Though probably not relevant to this OP, yes, parts of Eastern Shan State, including Kengtung, can be accessed overland from Mai Sai, Thailand/Tachilek, Burma border crossing, then by road. Usually if you already have a standard visa for Burma, you can enter this way, then from Kengtung either return the same way, or continue by air to Heho and from there, elsewhere in Myanmar. You may not use the land route between Kengtung and Taunggyi. Sometimes, the Burmese government will impose restrictions on this particular land entry that require one to exit the same way back to Thailand. Sometimes, the Burmese government will issue at the border (Tachilek) a 14-day visa good as far as Kengtung and surroundings. A border day-pass for Tachilek only is nearly always available unless the Thais and Burmese are fighting. As always with Burma, things can change, so anyone planning the overland route MUST get the absolute latest information on what's happening in real time. Do not depend on any forum postings more than 2-3 months old, and try to canvass several data points for the latest. International air routes into Yangon or Mandalay are normally pretty reliable.
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Old Jul 11, 2010 | 3:10 am
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Originally Posted by kan148
Thanks for the input guys. I'm planning to be in Myanmar for about a week only. And, it'll be around late December. As of today, Bagan is the only interest because I don't know where else to go at this point. Thinking of going back to Ngapali again as I loved how the beaches are quiet and less crowded (compare to the ones in Thailand). But, yea, appreciate the suggestions.

P.S- This album made me wanna check out Bagan, btw. Have you guys been on such balloon rides? Does it worth it? http://www.flickr.com/groups/balloon...an/pool/page4/
With only a week, I would advise you to split the time Bagan (3 days), Inle Lake (3 days incl partial travel), Yangon/Misc (1 day for logistics). Domestic intercity travel by air. Skip the beach this time--that's a re-tread. Inle will be far more worthwhile and some people rank it above Bagan as their favorite place in Myanmar.

Balloon ride: expensive but some say very worth it. Lingering safety issues, as with similar places elsewhere in SE Asia. Don't bother spending the money if it's a hazy day.
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Old Jul 11, 2010 | 4:32 am
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Originally Posted by jiejie
With only a week, I would advise you to split the time Bagan (3 days), Inle Lake (3 days incl partial travel), Yangon/Misc (1 day for logistics). Domestic intercity travel by air. Skip the beach this time--that's a re-tread. Inle will be far more worthwhile and some people rank it above Bagan as their favorite place in Myanmar.

Balloon ride: expensive but some say very worth it. Lingering safety issues, as with similar places elsewhere in SE Asia. Don't bother spending the money if it's a hazy day.
Bagan is very interesting with more temples than you can possibly see in several days spread around liberally. There used to be a $10 entrance fee to the area. Im sure it still exists though at what price I couldn't say.

Inle is fantastic. There is a market which moves around to 5 different towns in succession which should be seen. A boat around the lake should take you to one among other sights.

Kalaw is good for hikes, also recommended. Last time I ventured out for 3 days/2 nights and would do it again in a heartbeat.

Enjoy.
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Old Jul 14, 2010 | 8:29 pm
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I have been to Myanmar four times (last in Feb. 2010) and Laos twice. I prefer the food in Laos but all other points go to Myanmar. The travel experience is stimulating and the people are lovely. I have used the same guide the last three trips to Myanmar. He makes all the arrangements and accompanies us throughout the country. If you are interested in more details, drop me a PM.
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Old Jul 18, 2010 | 8:39 am
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Appreciate the comments gents.

jiejie - I will be flying in from Singapore (like last year, even though I absolutely do not enjoy silkAir) instead of driving from Thailand. Stopped by at the Burmese embassy yesterday evening here in Washington and they asked me to come back 3 months before the trip. The girl also said I can get the visa at the airport if I'm too busy to apply before leaving US. I think I'm all set after shopping the air tickets.

Also, what's in Inlay? I googled but isn't it just a lake? Because I've been to a lot of lakes in US and all around Europe, I would like to skip it if it doesn't give me much of an experience. Ancient temples, on the other hand, I would very much love to see and experience as they aren't anywhere but in Bagan (around that era at least). Haven't read much about Kalaw yet. But, thanks a lot for throwing out the ideas. You all are the best!

I've also read that you can take a boat from Rangoon to Bagan. Have you guys done that? mgmsteven, I'll pm you about the guide.
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Old Jul 19, 2010 | 6:28 pm
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Originally Posted by kan148
Appreciate the comments gents.

jiejie - I will be flying in from Singapore (like last year, even though I absolutely do not enjoy silkAir) instead of driving from Thailand. Stopped by at the Burmese embassy yesterday evening here in Washington and they asked me to come back 3 months before the trip. The girl also said I can get the visa at the airport if I'm too busy to apply before leaving US. I think I'm all set after shopping the air tickets.

Also, what's in Inlay? I googled but isn't it just a lake? Because I've been to a lot of lakes in US and all around Europe, I would like to skip it if it doesn't give me much of an experience. Ancient temples, on the other hand, I would very much love to see and experience as they aren't anywhere but in Bagan (around that era at least). Haven't read much about Kalaw yet. But, thanks a lot for throwing out the ideas. You all are the best!

I've also read that you can take a boat from Rangoon to Bagan. Have you guys done that? mgmsteven, I'll pm you about the guide.
Inle is a cool lake at 1000m where the locals fish using interesting conical nets. It's a peaceful and pretty location with colorful locals, good sight lines and a market which rotates among 5 towns on the lake. There's also a temple in the middle of the lake. I enjoyed my time immensely, but to each their own.

Kalaw is an hour or so short of Inle. There's not much in the town to keep you there, but it is a great place to base a 2 or 3 day trek through local villages.

If you are in this vicinity for one you should check out the other. The are both on the main tourist trail.

I've taken the boat from Mandalay to Bagan, but never down to Yangon. While being a great vantage point to see the land, the trip was long and hot. Not sure I'd want to venture all the way down to Yangon on a boat.
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