jeroen100

Sad to hear of the derailment of the Empire Builder in Montana.

Amtrak train derails in Montana, killing three and injuring dozens:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58696143

it seems to have happened in a place where the tracks are relatively straight and level. Any idea what could have caused the derailment?

zephyr17

It is way to early, but based on the position of the cars in some of the photos, it looks to me like it picked a switch at speed.

RatherBeOnATrain

I don't think the switch was picked.

It's hard for me to tell for sure from the pictures I've seen so far, but it appears to me that the final four cars all flipped onto their sides. The last three of those cars are actually separated from the rest of the train and I think where those cars ended up is prior to the switch, so I think the derailment happened prior to the switch.

I am also surprised that the fatality count is the same as the 2017 Cascades derailment, which looked to be much more severe. The Cascades derailment caused Amtrak to scrap the Talgos. Perhaps the Empire Builder's derailment will expedite the Superliners' retirement? The first Superliners were built in 1975, so they will start turning 50 years old in 2025.

AndyPatterson

To what extent is the problem the condition of the track bed, switches, etc. (whoever owns that track, am guessing BNSF), as opposed to a problem with the Amtrak trainsets or how fast it was going?

screeton

PTC was in effect and operating in the area, which would have controlled train overspeed. A review of the locomotive "black box" showed that train was operating a few MPH below the maximum allowed, 79mph in that area. The fact that cars derailed and overturned before reaching the switch means that if it was a track defect, it was prior to reaching the switch. Of course, it could have been a wheel defect also. We will have to wait for NTSB investigators to look at all possibilities.

zephyr17

As to the first, yes, one of the very few things the NTSB has stated as fact thus far is that the derailment initiated prior to the switch.

As to the Talgos, the issue with the Talgos was not age. As it stands, the retired Talgos were newer than any Superliner and much newer than the Superliner Is. The Talgo 6 series were retired because they were not fully FRA-compliant and were operating under a waiver, as the NTSB pointed out in recommending their retirement, which Washington DOT acted on. The FRA compliant Talgo 8s remain in service. The Superliners were and are fully FRA compliant. In looking at pictures of the wreck, there was very little if any crumple ("reduction of survivable space"), all cars appear structurally intact, all wheelsets were retained. No telescoping and little "accordioning" of the cars. I'd say the Superliners performed admirably in this high-speed derailment.

PS, the Superliner Is were delivered 1978-1981. They were ordered in 1975. The first Amfleets entered service in 1975.

ChurnieEls

Big yikes when I saw this on Saturday, I'm scheduled to travel on the westbound service this Saturday.

RIP to those poor folks.

MSPeconomist

Check that your train will be operating on the entire route. A couple days ago local news said that the Empire Builder was only operating between Chicago and St Paul.

BobH

The Builder is back to it's normal schedule.

1. Bob H