whirledtraveler

Why didn't you give them your phone number? I know what your phone number is. It's the same as mine: 555-1212

Of course, you can always tell then you don't have a phone too. It's not agains the law to not have one as far as I know.

kingsroadgal

I totally agree. If the credit card companies wanted to actually resolve the problem of credit card fraud, we would use the PIN system. The chances of someone seeing you enter your PIN AND obtaining your credit card are negligible in my opinion. If everyone looked like their ID, and if every store clerk were trained in facial recognition, perhaps that would be a viable security method. As it is, I see the ID system as nothing more than a small patch for a huge problem.

T-Man

My family's been involved in a small retail business for quite a long time, and I've worked for them on and off over the last twenty years or so. Our policy on accepting credit cards has changed over time, and now we generally ask for ID from customers:
-when the card isn't signed, or
-when we are suspicious that the card may be stolen
-when the purchase amount is large and it's not a regular customer
Although the second is quite subjective, it's based on twenty years of being the victim of fraudulent activity (and I say victim because most of the time the credit card company will charge us back). The credit card companies actually send out flyers for merchants on how to recognize suspicious behavior. What we've found out is that if we ask for ID when we are suspicious of the card being stolen but not yet reported, the person will panic - most of the time the person will try to cancel the transaction and leave, sometimes even leaving the card behind. Other people simply tell us they don't have ID, and offer to show us some other information they have with their name or other information on it. Although this additional information doesn't 'prove' anything, it does tend to scare many opportunistic, but not professional, credit card thieves.
And it seems to work. Unfortunately, when dealing with a professional credit card thief, or just someone who keeps their calm and has practiced the signature on the back of the card many times (so much so that they may be able to match it better than the card holder), we still tend to fall victim to fraud. But we don't get a whole lot of them.

peter42

As there are card readers which just copy the card, they would copy the pin when entered to. I think photo cards which are checked are a far better way.

KathyP

I really don't have much of a problem when stores ask for ID when I purchase something and charge it on a credit card but last week I returned a item I had purchased with a VISA at Restoration Hardware in Tysons Corner, Va. I handed the clerk the item, the sales receipt and the VISA card. After she scanne the item and ran my card through the scanner she then asked me for additional ID. I asked her why she needed a second ID on a return when she had the item, the receipt and the credit card and she answered "store policy is to obtain a second ID when a return is made" I asked her why she needed a second ID for a return when I had not had to show one when I purchased the item but of course she didn't know. I flat out refused to give her a second ID and she processed the return without it. THat will end my future shopping at that store. THe problem is that we all act like sheep. If more customers complained about store policies that are for the convenience of the store instead of for the customers these stupid policies would be discontinued but instead too many people just roll over and play dead. Stores have forgotten the simple basics of customer service. While we are on the subject of pet peeves why is it that when you purchase multiple items that are identical the store cannot scan the item once and then enter a quantity in the computer. Why must they scan each item individually when the item number is identical. I have asked about this a few times and been told it is for the stores "inventory control system". SO for the sake of the stores inventory control I, the customer, am to be inconveniced and made to stand in line longer than needs be. Stores that do this sort of thing do not continue to get my business.

Kremmen

That's sometimes because the checkout operator is incompetent, poorly trained, can't count, or can't be bothered. I've been to places where that happens one time, yet another time a different person will just scan the item once and then tap some keys on their keyboard to multiply it by the number of items.

andyZRH

Are you sure that this is true for Amex? The monthly bill for my Switzerland-issued Amex card is mailed from the US. I also experienced more than once that US mail-order companies would accept Amex ONLY for international deliveries. I always figured that they have some way to verify my Amex billing address that they don't have with other cards.


I used my non-US Amex card several times at California gas stations where I had to enter the ZIP code. I just entered my Swiss 4-digit ZIP code with a leading zero... worked like a charm! I remember that I was thinking about what those poor guys from Canada or the UK would do...

andy

Kremmen

Yes, they do, but it depends on the company being willing and able to do it.

The databases are not connected. At least, they were not when I enquired a few years ago. It can, however, be checked manually. If the company phones up Amex for authorisation, they can be put through to the international division who can look up the appropriate country database and check address details. If the company does an electronic authorisation, no, it can't access overseas addresses.

I found this out because I'd been wanting to fly one-way BZN-DEN a few years ago, an expensive air ticket for the distance. The prices had been going up and down (most of them code-shares on the one airline). Suddenly, Frontier dropped their price to about US$100 lower than anyone else. It was a US holiday weekend, so no physical travel agents were open and Frontier's web site couldn't book code-shares, so I phoned Frontier direct. They took all my information and then said they couldn't accept any of my credit cards. I contacted Visa, who were totally useless. I contacted Amex, who informed me of the situation as I described above. I rang Frontier back, and they simply told me that their authorisation system was through their computer and they couldn't/wouldn't ring the credit card company to check the address details!

What was more annoying was that I'd been in contact with Frontier previously by email, finding out that there was no way at all to book the flight through anyone in Australia and had been told I could book through their phone sales in the USA. The person who told me that knew where I was from!

I ended up paying a US friend, who booked the Frontier flight on her credit card for me.

MatthewClement

I always give 202-456-1212. I tell them to ask for George.

Wingtipflyer1

I tell people the phone's unlisted. If they insist on an address it's 1313 Mockingbirdlane. Some people get it & laugh others type away.

I'm an ol retail person myself. It just plain basics on finding those who are using a stolen card. Random sizes, not trying on items, in a hurry, etc.
The "can I see ID thing" is a joke.

Recently, I had someone ask for ID at Starbucks @ ORD (my AMEX is pretty worn on the back) I said no problem & showed the cashier my DL. I also asked them "don't you think I'd go for something a little more expensive if this card were stolen?" no comment from the cashier.
Unfortunately, this has become protocall for ending card fraud.

The Viking

In Norway at shops and retail stores it is quite common having to show your ID if shopping for more than €100, and hardly questioned by the general public. Our Visa cards come with a picture and ID details on the back and are accepted along the lines like any official ID like passports or driver's licences.

BUT: I have had two rather unpleasant events the last two weeks, one when buying my new mobile phone (€ 250), and another when paying a restaurant bill of the same magnitude. In both instances the reader came back: "Please contact Amex for manual authorization.
The check out clerk at the electronics shop who was definetely NOT proficient in any language except Norwegian was passed through the different systems on the phone, finally speaking with the UK based Centurion desk who then insisted on speaking with me in person to verify my ID with the usual 2-3 secret questions.
Meanwhile a rather large line formed behind me, rather embarrasing!

At the restaurant the same process happened, Amex had to verify my ID, etc. Fortunately the waiter was bilingual, and laughed it off, especially when I told him that the Black Card was for the "Black sheep in Amex' portfolio" and that they thought my tip had been too large... (BTW: I have always been in perfect standing regarding payments and charges, and last month's charges had up until then been below par for the month).

I did voice my opinion to Centurion help desk regarding these incidents, not necessarily regarding the need for security, but rather the inconvenience etc..

DelrayChris

People, it's simple:

1) The use of the card is subject to the cardmember agreement

2) ALL Credit card companies require the card to be signed to be considered valid.

3) Merchants DO NOT have to accept card that are not signed.

4) Credit card companies have SPECIFIC guidelines for people who write SEE ID on their card... Those guidelines being, a) sign the card and show ID, or b) deny the charge.

If you don't sign the card, don't b***h and moan when a shop owner does not honor it as they are also bound to merchant agreements stating they cannot accept cards that are not signed.

Case closed...

marbles dad

i just love it when I buy movie tix with a credit card and they ask to see id.
it's a certain kind of crook that will purchase something and then hang around the scene of the 'crime" for 2 hours or so watching a movie!!!

infinityplusone

Interesting discussion... Of my three credit cards two MC and one Amex, One MC is signed, one has "ask for ID" and the Amex is not signed.
I find that the asking for ID is extremely random. I am rarely (10%) asked for ID on the card that I have signed, sometimes asked for ID (50%) on the card that has "ask for ID" and very rarely (<10%) asked for ID on the card that is not signed.

About being "cocky", I disagree that is the reason why many people do not like to be asked for ID (or for other information, zip code/phone number/etc).
It is definately not the reason why I find it annoying. I had several of my credit card numbers stolen (back when I had about 10 of them).
The person who stole them ran up about $9,000 worth of charges. While it was annoying and left me with a feeling of being violated. I worry much less about identity theft and or unauthorized charges on my credit cards then I do with having companies gathering whatever information about me and my spending patterns and then selling that information or putting it in some database to be used by whatever government agency.

Probably all in, I spent about an hour total with the different credit companies cancelling cards (7), disputing charges, etc.
I had figured out who had stolen my CC #s and was able to submit notorized "papers" (can't recall what they were called exactly) stating that I knew who stole the #s, gave what info I had on said person, etc. I don't know what happened - if anything happened - with the person who racked up the charges.

andyZRH

What exactly is the purpose of not signing the card at all? I would expect a merchant to refuse a card without signature. That's *if* they check the signature, of course...

andy