AmEx Scores a Starwood Win as Marriott Opts for Dual Issuers AmEx and JPMorgan
Dec 5, 2017, 2:07 pm
#31
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toledo, OH
Programs: Delta DM & MM, Hilton DM, Marriott gold, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska 75K, Wyndham Diamond,
Posts: 15,399
I'm thinking if they charge $500 a year they'll give Platinum seeing the non=branded American Express Platinum already gives gold plus a lot more benefits and the Hilton card that will be $450 gives top tier plus a free night and resort and airline credit. Or if they are only going to give SPG gold I'm hoping the annual fee will be around $150 seeing Hilton gives out gold status plus a free night for $95 a year.
Dec 5, 2017, 2:12 pm
#32
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,958
Dec 5, 2017, 4:02 pm
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I'm assuming that at some point (maybe late 2018 or early 2019) both Amex and Chase will stop offering their current SPG or Marriott cards. At which point there will likely be no Chase equivalent to the current Ritz Carlton Card and no Amex equivalent to the current personal SPG card. It's possible they may agree to swap portfolios and do a product change, or the issuers could retain those customers and transition them to cards with similar annual fees and benefits that aren't available to new applicants.
Assuming Chase and AmEx don't swap, the currently available US cards with the same AF as the SPG card (also assuming that a PC to another company's co-brand card is out of the question) are the BCP, Green and EDP. PRG is also possible if AmEx is willing to go a bit higher on the AF. Of course, there are significant differences with all of those compared to SPG/Marriott, so it's very possible a brand new card product would have to be created.
Another option is to transition the current SPG cardholders to the new high-end Marriott card but grandfather them on the current AF for some period of time. I'm not sure AmEx would be willing to do this, however.
Dec 5, 2017, 6:39 pm
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,933
Have there ever been any portfolio swaps recently with other cards/issuers? I don't recall there being any but I could have missed one.
Assuming Chase and AmEx don't swap, the currently available US cards with the same AF as the SPG card (also assuming that a PC to another company's co-brand card is out of the question) are the BCP, Green and EDP. PRG is also possible if AmEx is willing to go a bit higher on the AF. Of course, there are significant differences with all of those compared to SPG/Marriott, so it's very possible a brand new card product would have to be created.
Another option is to transition the current SPG cardholders to the new high-end Marriott card but grandfather them on the current AF for some period of time. I'm not sure AmEx would be willing to do this, however.
Assuming Chase and AmEx don't swap, the currently available US cards with the same AF as the SPG card (also assuming that a PC to another company's co-brand card is out of the question) are the BCP, Green and EDP. PRG is also possible if AmEx is willing to go a bit higher on the AF. Of course, there are significant differences with all of those compared to SPG/Marriott, so it's very possible a brand new card product would have to be created.
Another option is to transition the current SPG cardholders to the new high-end Marriott card but grandfather them on the current AF for some period of time. I'm not sure AmEx would be willing to do this, however.
Meanwhile, if not PC to Amex business card, what is Chase going to do with Marriott Business cards (of which I just got one, because it's the only Marriott program card that's not subject to 5/24 at Chase)? Chase can't PC business cards to non-business cards AFAIK, so are they really going to convert them to Freedom (as is their usual habit of forced PCs of discontinued Chase cards? Or in this case because they're business cads, will they PC them to some sort of Ink?
Green and PRG are charge cards. Does Amex ever allow/do product conversions between credit cards and charge cards??? (I would assume not, but I don't know for sure.)
One possibility is that Amex will offer personal SPG Amex cardholders an opportunity to upgrade their card to the High version, and if the user doesn't want it, the user has to choose what to PC it to if they don't want it cancelled on them. Another possibility (that I think was already mentioned upthread) is that existing cards might be treated differently than new accounts (ie, Amex might be able to PC SPG personal Amex to a medium Amex that they can't accept new applications for).
So the speculation about what can happen hardly has limits on it. But it's likely to be a good part of the year before we know any specifics, so everything up until then (beyond the announcement) is nothing but speculation.
Dec 5, 2017, 6:57 pm
#35
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: DL(PM), UA(Silver), AA(EXP) Marriott(Ti), HH(Gold), Hertz(PC)
Posts: 2,669
Has there been a two-way portfolio swap? No. But a one-way portfolio swap is current in progress: the merger of Citi HH products into the Amex HH line, which does involve automatic PC to another company's co-brand card (for example, most Citi HH Reserve card owners are being converted to the new Amex HH Ascend card).
Dec 5, 2017, 7:17 pm
#36
Ambassador: Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 7,390
Marriott has historically been very good at protecting Platinum status (requiring insane amount of CC spend to even get comp Platinum) and I don't see any indication of that changing anytime soon.
Hilton is much more liberal at giving away status.
Hilton is much more liberal at giving away status.
Dec 5, 2017, 7:55 pm
#37
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 728
Based on the article in post #1 there will be three card levels, with Chase issuing the Low and Medium priced versions and Amex issuing the High and Business versions. I wouldn't expect these cards to be issued while SPG still exists, and we don't know how many elite tiers the new Marriott program will have, but I expect it will be more than three.
Dec 5, 2017, 7:57 pm
#38
Join Date: May 2013
Programs: UA Au Marriott Ti Hilton C
Posts: 159
Just who is the target market for the Amex card? This card seems likes it's a day late and a dollar short with CSR and the similar Amex cards already in the marketplace.
It's not like I need two Global Entry reimbursements or Priority Pass cards.
The hardcore SPG and MR members likely already have annual or lifetime status. They also likely already have Chase Marriott or Amex SPG cards.
A huge bonus would get my attention, but they'll need a stronger (and different) package of ongoing member benefits to keep folks around.
We'll see soon enough and I'd like to be pleasantly surprised.
It's not like I need two Global Entry reimbursements or Priority Pass cards.
The hardcore SPG and MR members likely already have annual or lifetime status. They also likely already have Chase Marriott or Amex SPG cards.
A huge bonus would get my attention, but they'll need a stronger (and different) package of ongoing member benefits to keep folks around.
We'll see soon enough and I'd like to be pleasantly surprised.
Dec 5, 2017, 8:15 pm
#39
Ambassador: Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 7,390
Just who is the target market for the Amex card? This card seems likes it's a day late and a dollar short with CSR and the similar Amex cards already in the marketplace.
A huge bonus would get my attention, but they'll need a stronger (and different) package of ongoing member benefits to keep folks around.
We'll see soon enough and I'd like to be pleasantly surprised.
A huge bonus would get my attention, but they'll need a stronger (and different) package of ongoing member benefits to keep folks around.
We'll see soon enough and I'd like to be pleasantly surprised.
Those are very attractive to those who stays at Hiltons, including current Diamonds. I am positive AMEX will come up with one that has a strong value proposition for the Marriott/Starwood customer base.
Dec 5, 2017, 8:31 pm
#40
Join Date: May 2013
Programs: UA Au Marriott Ti Hilton C
Posts: 159
Wait until the new cards are announced.
The target market will be those who have relatively high discretionary spending and likes staying in Marriott/Starwood hotels. If you see the new AMEX Hilton premium card its very attractive for those who do spend quite few nights at Hilton... $250 airline fee credit, $250 Hilton resort credit, free weekend night certificate (valid at almost all hotels), $100 on property credit at WA/Conrad with Aspire package, and 14x points per $1 spent at Hiltons.
Those are very attractive to those who stays at Hiltons, including current Diamonds. I am positive AMEX will come up with one that has a strong value proposition for the Marriott/Starwood customer base.
The target market will be those who have relatively high discretionary spending and likes staying in Marriott/Starwood hotels. If you see the new AMEX Hilton premium card its very attractive for those who do spend quite few nights at Hilton... $250 airline fee credit, $250 Hilton resort credit, free weekend night certificate (valid at almost all hotels), $100 on property credit at WA/Conrad with Aspire package, and 14x points per $1 spent at Hiltons.
Those are very attractive to those who stays at Hiltons, including current Diamonds. I am positive AMEX will come up with one that has a strong value proposition for the Marriott/Starwood customer base.
Otherwise, I'll stick with CSR for discretionary spend other than picking off things like 35K Amex SPG bonuses.
Dec 5, 2017, 9:45 pm
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, MM, NR; HH Diamond, Bonvoy LT Gold, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Diamond, others
Posts: 12,159
I hope it does. I'm an existing Platinum, and remaining so via the card (until I make Lifetime Platinum) is easy and relatively inexpensive.
Dec 5, 2017, 9:50 pm
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, MM, NR; HH Diamond, Bonvoy LT Gold, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Diamond, others
Posts: 12,159
Except for people on flyertalk, who can get Marriott Platinum for under $400/year without any stays.
Dec 5, 2017, 10:32 pm
#43
Ambassador: Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 7,390
Dec 6, 2017, 2:21 pm
#45
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 998
How much can you really devalue a $95 annual fee card that earns 1 point per dollar? The bigger question is what happens to the SPG program post 2018 when Marriott eventually combines the programs, and the knock on effect that has on the card
If I had to hazard a guess, it might resemble the forthcoming Hilton Ascend card. I also think that differentiation, looks like maybe the Marriott Biz card is the only one that doesn't fit the new split if Chase will only offer consumer products.
If I had to hazard a guess, it might resemble the forthcoming Hilton Ascend card. I also think that differentiation, looks like maybe the Marriott Biz card is the only one that doesn't fit the new split if Chase will only offer consumer products.