SPG card vs Platinum for everyday spending in China
Oct 14, 2013, 5:19 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
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Posts: 664
SPG card vs Platinum for everyday spending in China
Hey Guys
I am working in China for a long period of time. After discovering how boring the Chinese Union-Pay rewards programs are, I decided to use my US cards. Also since Visa cards in China always run into Dynamic Currency Conversion (exorbitant exchange rate) problem, I am thinking using AMEX in China whenever you can.
Now I have a SPG card. If I spend 16000 USD (everyday spending is 1$ to 1 point), which is around 97700 CNY, I can get 16000 points for a night of stay in Westin Financial Street, which costs at least 1500 CNY including taxes. Since there is a 2.7% conversion fee, my final spending is 100366 CNY, and I am getting 1.5% back.
I am also thinking of getting a Platinum. This way I can get SPG Gold for free, and I can have benefits I need. However, I am not really familiar with AMEX's Rewards Program, so I don't know how much percent I can get back. I know I can transfer 90000 points (90000 USD in spending) to ANA, and get a one way Business from China to LAX for 90000 miles, plus $350, which values at least $2000. This way it gives back around the same 1.5%.
There is no currency conversion fee, but there is a $450 annual fee.
How does everyone think regarding my calculation? Any suggestions on which card to use in China for the reward?
Thanks in advance.
I am working in China for a long period of time. After discovering how boring the Chinese Union-Pay rewards programs are, I decided to use my US cards. Also since Visa cards in China always run into Dynamic Currency Conversion (exorbitant exchange rate) problem, I am thinking using AMEX in China whenever you can.
Now I have a SPG card. If I spend 16000 USD (everyday spending is 1$ to 1 point), which is around 97700 CNY, I can get 16000 points for a night of stay in Westin Financial Street, which costs at least 1500 CNY including taxes. Since there is a 2.7% conversion fee, my final spending is 100366 CNY, and I am getting 1.5% back.
I am also thinking of getting a Platinum. This way I can get SPG Gold for free, and I can have benefits I need. However, I am not really familiar with AMEX's Rewards Program, so I don't know how much percent I can get back. I know I can transfer 90000 points (90000 USD in spending) to ANA, and get a one way Business from China to LAX for 90000 miles, plus $350, which values at least $2000. This way it gives back around the same 1.5%.
There is no currency conversion fee, but there is a $450 annual fee.
How does everyone think regarding my calculation? Any suggestions on which card to use in China for the reward?
Thanks in advance.
Oct 14, 2013, 7:54 am
#2
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 583
The SPG is definitely not a good choice.
Your calculation for the SPG is a bit off as the 2.7% FTF is purely a fee and not part of your original spending.
Using your numbers, 16000 points for a night that cost 1500 CNY ( ~ 245 USD ) , that's a rewards rate at 1.53 cents (US) per USD spend, and the 2.7% FTF is more than double your rewards rate. So that's not a option that you should consider at all.
AMEX Plat also isn't a good option given the $450 annual fee unless you can really use the benefits like lounge access or the hotel perks with FHR.
I would suggest the Discover IT card. It's a 1% Cashback with rotating 5% category, but it has no annual fee, no foreign transaction fees, no DCC, and it runs on the UnionPay network in China, so its acceptance will be much better than AMEX ( or even Visa / MC for that matter )
If the stores that you visits doesn't force DCC, then CapitalOne QuickSilver Visa offers 1.5% Cashback, no annual fee, no FTF
Your calculation for the SPG is a bit off as the 2.7% FTF is purely a fee and not part of your original spending.
Using your numbers, 16000 points for a night that cost 1500 CNY ( ~ 245 USD ) , that's a rewards rate at 1.53 cents (US) per USD spend, and the 2.7% FTF is more than double your rewards rate. So that's not a option that you should consider at all.
AMEX Plat also isn't a good option given the $450 annual fee unless you can really use the benefits like lounge access or the hotel perks with FHR.
I would suggest the Discover IT card. It's a 1% Cashback with rotating 5% category, but it has no annual fee, no foreign transaction fees, no DCC, and it runs on the UnionPay network in China, so its acceptance will be much better than AMEX ( or even Visa / MC for that matter )
If the stores that you visits doesn't force DCC, then CapitalOne QuickSilver Visa offers 1.5% Cashback, no annual fee, no FTF
Last edited by Ragnarok; Oct 14, 2013 at 8:08 am
Oct 14, 2013, 8:26 am
#3
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11
I also agree that Discover card is your best bet for wide acceptance and skip the SPG.
Though I would say get the Merc Benz Plat card, the 50k points on top of $400 in airline credit more than makes up for the $475 annual fee. Transferring 120k MR points to Aeroplan will get you round trip business class on Air China and the fuel surcharges should be less than ANA
In addition, I would consider getting Chase Sapphire Preferred for the places that do take it. I've mainly used it in higher end hotels since they seem to understand immediately when I ask to be charged in CNY.
Though I would say get the Merc Benz Plat card, the 50k points on top of $400 in airline credit more than makes up for the $475 annual fee. Transferring 120k MR points to Aeroplan will get you round trip business class on Air China and the fuel surcharges should be less than ANA
In addition, I would consider getting Chase Sapphire Preferred for the places that do take it. I've mainly used it in higher end hotels since they seem to understand immediately when I ask to be charged in CNY.
Oct 14, 2013, 6:56 pm
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
The SPG is definitely not a good choice.
Your calculation for the SPG is a bit off as the 2.7% FTF is purely a fee and not part of your original spending.
Using your numbers, 16000 points for a night that cost 1500 CNY ( ~ 245 USD ) , that's a rewards rate at 1.53 cents (US) per USD spend, and the 2.7% FTF is more than double your rewards rate. So that's not a option that you should consider at all.
AMEX Plat also isn't a good option given the $450 annual fee unless you can really use the benefits like lounge access or the hotel perks with FHR.
I would suggest the Discover IT card. It's a 1% Cashback with rotating 5% category, but it has no annual fee, no foreign transaction fees, no DCC, and it runs on the UnionPay network in China, so its acceptance will be much better than AMEX ( or even Visa / MC for that matter )
If the stores that you visits doesn't force DCC, then CapitalOne QuickSilver Visa offers 1.5% Cashback, no annual fee, no FTF
Your calculation for the SPG is a bit off as the 2.7% FTF is purely a fee and not part of your original spending.
Using your numbers, 16000 points for a night that cost 1500 CNY ( ~ 245 USD ) , that's a rewards rate at 1.53 cents (US) per USD spend, and the 2.7% FTF is more than double your rewards rate. So that's not a option that you should consider at all.
AMEX Plat also isn't a good option given the $450 annual fee unless you can really use the benefits like lounge access or the hotel perks with FHR.
I would suggest the Discover IT card. It's a 1% Cashback with rotating 5% category, but it has no annual fee, no foreign transaction fees, no DCC, and it runs on the UnionPay network in China, so its acceptance will be much better than AMEX ( or even Visa / MC for that matter )
If the stores that you visits doesn't force DCC, then CapitalOne QuickSilver Visa offers 1.5% Cashback, no annual fee, no FTF
Say 16000 USD gets 245 USD back but results in a 435 USD conversion fee. This doesn't make any sense, right? But the original return is 245 / 16000 = 0.0153. Shouldn't the new return be 245 / 16435 = 0.149? Definitely the first calculation is dominating, and there must be something wrong in the second calculation...
Also, I don't wanna roam into another company since I already have 5 Chase cards, and a SPG AMEX. Because of the evil DCC, I always run into problems with Visas, and I am tired of teaching dumb cashiers here how to turn off DCC...
Do you know the value of AMEX Rewards points if I use them for airfare redemption? Thanks~
I also agree that Discover card is your best bet for wide acceptance and skip the SPG.
Though I would say get the Merc Benz Plat card, the 50k points on top of $400 in airline credit more than makes up for the $475 annual fee. Transferring 120k MR points to Aeroplan will get you round trip business class on Air China and the fuel surcharges should be less than ANA
In addition, I would consider getting Chase Sapphire Preferred for the places that do take it. I've mainly used it in higher end hotels since they seem to understand immediately when I ask to be charged in CNY.
Though I would say get the Merc Benz Plat card, the 50k points on top of $400 in airline credit more than makes up for the $475 annual fee. Transferring 120k MR points to Aeroplan will get you round trip business class on Air China and the fuel surcharges should be less than ANA
In addition, I would consider getting Chase Sapphire Preferred for the places that do take it. I've mainly used it in higher end hotels since they seem to understand immediately when I ask to be charged in CNY.
Since Platinum gives a lot of benefits, and I am pretty sure DCC is not effective on AMEX cards with my own verificating experiment, I think I want to have a Platinum someday, and I don't mind the annual fee, since I am already around $1000 for my 5 Chase cards. I am just not sure how much the MR points value.
Oct 14, 2013, 8:27 pm
#5
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 583
Say 16000 USD gets 245 USD back but results in a 435 USD conversion fee. This doesn't make any sense, right? But the original return is 245 / 16000 = 0.0153. Shouldn't the new return be 245 / 16435 = 0.149? Definitely the first calculation is dominating, and there must be something wrong in the second calculation...
Do you know the value of AMEX Rewards points if I use them for airfare redemption? Thanks~
You were spending 16,000 USD in exchange for goods and services. The 435 USD conversion fee is something that you are paying extra.
So, like you calculated earlier, you will be paying more in conversion fee than what you are getting back with an SPG card.
If you are working in China for a long period of time, I would suggest reviewing your travel pattern to see if you are really benefiting from the cards you have as some of the benefits may only be useful in the US.
e.g. The Chase Mileage Explorer gets you free first checked baggage, but you are going to get a free bag anyway for a flight between US and China.
P.S. You mentioned SPG Gold as something you are interested in, but by holding a SPG AMEX, you already have SPG Preferred Plus status, which gets the same benefits SPG Gold gets, minus the 50% elite member bonus for eligible charges.
Last edited by Ragnarok; Oct 14, 2013 at 9:02 pm
Oct 14, 2013, 9:23 pm
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
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The problem with the second calculation is that the conversion fee is not part of what you were spending in the first place.
You were spending 16,000 USD in exchange for goods and services. The 435 USD conversion fee is something that you are paying extra.
So, like you calculated earlier, you will be paying more in conversion fee than what you are getting back with an SPG card.
If you are working in China for a long period of time, I would suggest reviewing your travel pattern to see if you are really benefiting from the cards you have as some of the benefits may only be useful in the US.
e.g. The Chase Mileage Explorer gets you free first checked baggage, but you are going to get a free bag anyway for a flight between US and China.
P.S. You mentioned SPG Gold as something you are interested in, but by holding a SPG AMEX, you already have SPG Preferred Plus status, which gets the same benefits SPG Gold gets, minus the 50% elite member bonus for eligible charges.
You were spending 16,000 USD in exchange for goods and services. The 435 USD conversion fee is something that you are paying extra.
So, like you calculated earlier, you will be paying more in conversion fee than what you are getting back with an SPG card.
If you are working in China for a long period of time, I would suggest reviewing your travel pattern to see if you are really benefiting from the cards you have as some of the benefits may only be useful in the US.
e.g. The Chase Mileage Explorer gets you free first checked baggage, but you are going to get a free bag anyway for a flight between US and China.
P.S. You mentioned SPG Gold as something you are interested in, but by holding a SPG AMEX, you already have SPG Preferred Plus status, which gets the same benefits SPG Gold gets, minus the 50% elite member bonus for eligible charges.
I fly back to US quite a lot, so US benefits do count. But I do spend around $80000 in China as I do have a home here. That's why I wanna make full use of those spending, which might help with my credit history as well.
I think the Discover card is a good choice, but I do wanna develop a good relationship with AMEX.
Is it possible you can let me know how much I can value points of AMEX Rewards Program?
Oct 14, 2013, 9:57 pm
#7
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 86
Is this really true? I thought it was $200 on the regular Platinum or this one. I mean if it is really $400 airline credit then yea, that's a no brainer.
Oct 14, 2013, 10:02 pm
#8
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 583
I totally get your points. I think the reason I used my second calculation is that even though I am paying $435 to get $245 back, if you consider all the charges to my card as spending, I am still getting $245 for $16435. For the best Union-Pay rewards cards, you get 400 CNY gas card for 220000 CNY in spending. That's why using SPG in China is even better than local cards.
Is it possible you can let me know how much I can value points of AMEX Rewards Program?
Is it possible you can let me know how much I can value points of AMEX Rewards Program?
But really, think about your SPG calculations again.
Let' say you spend $16000 in buying a piece of jewelry. Using the SPG card, you pay $16435 total.
You get $245 back ( in the form of a free night), so your net cost for this piece of jewelry is $16435 - $245 = $16190.
On the other hand, say you use a card that doesn't give any rewards at all, but also doesn't charge any conversion fee, your net cost for this piece of jewelry will than just be $16000.
Last edited by Ragnarok; Oct 14, 2013 at 10:32 pm
Oct 14, 2013, 10:08 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
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I would value AMEX MR points at roughly 1.5 cents per point.
But really, think about your SPG calculations again.
Let' say you spend $16000 in buying a piece of jewelry. Using the SPG card, you pay $16435 total.
You get $245 back ( in the form of a free night), so your net cost for this piece of jewelry is $16435 - $16000 = $16190.
On the other hand, say you use a card that doesn't give any rewards at all, but also doesn't charge any conversion fee, your net cost for this piece of jewelry will than just be $16000.
Agreed?
But really, think about your SPG calculations again.
Let' say you spend $16000 in buying a piece of jewelry. Using the SPG card, you pay $16435 total.
You get $245 back ( in the form of a free night), so your net cost for this piece of jewelry is $16435 - $16000 = $16190.
On the other hand, say you use a card that doesn't give any rewards at all, but also doesn't charge any conversion fee, your net cost for this piece of jewelry will than just be $16000.
Agreed?
Also, are you sure that Discover cards don't have DCC problems? I was researching it and some DCC systems do work on Discover cards. I am pretty sure AMEX doesn't have the problem since I've done using that in China and it was problem-free.
Oct 14, 2013, 10:08 pm
#10
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 583
cloud_171 is probably referring to the first year of the card ownership, since the airline credit is based on calendar year, you can get $200 for 2013, and $200 for 2014, if you apply it now, for example.
Oct 14, 2013, 10:15 pm
#11
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 583
That makes very good sense, I totally agree.
Also, are you sure that Discover cards don't have DCC problems? I was researching it and some DCC systems do work on Discover cards. I am pretty sure AMEX doesn't have the problem since I've done using that in China and it was problem-free.
Also, are you sure that Discover cards don't have DCC problems? I was researching it and some DCC systems do work on Discover cards. I am pretty sure AMEX doesn't have the problem since I've done using that in China and it was problem-free.
You may also run in a strange acceptance issue in China with Discover cards is that some cashiers refuse to even try to swipe the card on the grounds that there is no UnionPay logo printed on the card, even though if they actually try it it will go through.
And you are right, AMEX doesn't do DCC.
Oct 15, 2013, 12:36 am
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
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Posts: 664
That, unfortunately I am not 100% sure.
You may also run in a strange acceptance issue in China with Discover cards is that some cashiers refuse to even try to swipe the card on the grounds that there is no UnionPay logo printed on the card, even though if they actually try it it will go through.
And you are right, AMEX doesn't do DCC.
You may also run in a strange acceptance issue in China with Discover cards is that some cashiers refuse to even try to swipe the card on the grounds that there is no UnionPay logo printed on the card, even though if they actually try it it will go through.
And you are right, AMEX doesn't do DCC.
Oct 15, 2013, 9:42 pm
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,227
Why don't you take the 450 annual fee and use it to buy 2 nights at the Westin Beijing, or whatever else you want to buy and just use a Union Pay card in China? Much more convenient and you really can use it everywhere.
Oct 18, 2013, 8:01 pm
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
Just got myself a Discover It. Gonna bring it to China and try it out. I am happy with the 1%.
I am not totally against high annual fees, unless I can get something back from it. AMEX platinum is always attractive to me, although I still don't have a solid reason to get it this time, as I already have the Chase United Club card and Ritz-Carlton card which cost $400 each, and I can go to every lounge of Star Alliance that I mainly use.
My current Union-Pay card charges around $350 in annual fees, and I get priority queueing in the bank and some free airport lounges in China, but a terrible rewards program.
For the "Union-Pay" logo problem, I am thinking maybe I can just buy a sticker and put it on the Discover card so people think it is Union-Pay. I will try whether Discover is accepted anywhere Union-Pay is.
I am not totally against high annual fees, unless I can get something back from it. AMEX platinum is always attractive to me, although I still don't have a solid reason to get it this time, as I already have the Chase United Club card and Ritz-Carlton card which cost $400 each, and I can go to every lounge of Star Alliance that I mainly use.
My current Union-Pay card charges around $350 in annual fees, and I get priority queueing in the bank and some free airport lounges in China, but a terrible rewards program.
For the "Union-Pay" logo problem, I am thinking maybe I can just buy a sticker and put it on the Discover card so people think it is Union-Pay. I will try whether Discover is accepted anywhere Union-Pay is.