FHR and consolidator (Priceline, Expedia) bookings on same stay?
Apr 4, 2012, 9:32 am
#16
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NYC
Programs: SPG Plat, Emerald Exec., PC Plat, AA, CO, DL, UBS Charter Card, Palladium Card, Amex Plat
Posts: 1,694
The new early check in is not something one is entitled to. It's a subject to availability deal.
Apr 6, 2012, 7:43 am
#17
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,161
[Moderator edit]
It is, however, my intention to maximize the benefits of a credit card that I dish out a $450 annual fee for, and to enjoy a brief respite from a 7 day work week in a way that would make me happiest.
In order to deny you this (which is what would be the correct thing to do) they are going to have to move you twice which just puts a burden on everyone.
So what you're doing is giving them the choice:
Either (a) we all go through some awkward checkin-checkout dance together and waste a lot of time and resources or (b) give me something I'm not entitled to.
When people abuse the benefits that they *do* get from these cards and programs (which is what you are trying to do, in order to get FHR benefits to apply to a non-Amex booking on a non-FHR rate), I think that it causes the hotels to review whether these policies are beneficial to the hotel at all. It's not worth it to the hotel if all of the so-called high end Amex FHR clients come in with priceline rates, make things difficult for them and increase costs.
Already we're seeing in this program what seems to be some re-thinking on the cost/benefit side from the hotels. People doing what you do further sink that benefit to the hotel and drive up the costs. There is no point for them to offer you or any of us anything if everyone plays the kind of game you are playing.
As I put above you have a much more reasonable approach which is to book your rooms end to end rather than putting this priceline room in the middle. You are exactly holding them hostage by booking in an unreasonable manner in order to try to get something you are not entitled to. If you just did it in a respectful way from the get go you might actually get it, rather than doing your best to arm twist them into getting it.
But by all means, your happiness should be the thing you should worry about most, and keep telling yourself that it's about maximizing your benefits when your benefits clearly do not apply.
Last edited by mia; Apr 6, 2012 at 8:00 am Reason: Remove personal characterization
Apr 6, 2012, 7:59 am
#18
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,957
Moderator reminder
Please write about American Express, travel agencies, and hotels not about each other. It's not necessary to use personal characterizations to make the points understood.
Jan 21, 2019, 12:21 pm
#19
Join Date: Jan 2019
Programs: Preferred Hotels and Resorts, Historic Hotels of America, HSMAI, CRME
Posts: 3
Someone at the hotel can see how you have booked. Generally speaking, the revenue managers, reservations teams and managers, and duty supervisors are all privy to this information. However, depending on the system used at the hotel, line-level employees have very little access to any details beyond the basics. For example, the bellman is able to see your room number and check-in and check-out information, but not how you booked, what you paid, or your CC information. Similar for other positions around the hotel.
Jan 21, 2019, 12:31 pm
#20
Join Date: Jan 2019
Programs: Preferred Hotels and Resorts, Historic Hotels of America, HSMAI, CRME
Posts: 3
Yes, you will be treated better - but that is not the reason.
The reason is that compared to Priceline and/or Expedia, anyone will be treated better (not just Amex or FHR).
When you book any hotel via Expedia or a similar site - they are paid a very low negotiated rate, which is significantly below even the lowest available direct rate with the hotel, including any corporate rates and many industry discounts.
Simply put, when you appear at a $200-per-night hotel, and in their eyes you have paid them $45; the last thing they will be thinking is how to help you or treat you special.
I have had in-depth discussions with front-office managers, duty managers, and revenue managers regarding this - and the difference between what any of the travel-consolidator websites pay them and what any other guest pays them is truly astounding.
The revenue is simply so low that it would be a significant waste of their time to do anything special to you.
At one particular hotel, I checked in together with a colleague:
1. They reserved through the hotel's website, using a special promotional code.
2. I paid through expedia, and paid actually $10 more than them (but the expedia rate included breakfast - which I why I chose it).
I had stayed at that hotel more than a dozen times, for several years.
My colleague had stayed their once before, one year previously.
They were offered an upgrade, and also given the opportunity to pay a nominal fee for a double upgrade (they took the free offer).
I was offered no upgrade - so I asked if I could have one as well (understand we were both checking together, with the same clerk).
I was told "for what we get paid from your reservation, you're lucky you have a room" and was then directed to the front-office manager who very kindly and apologetically gave me a detailed education in to how expedia-type bookings are done and received.
I was told that I could have paid the hotel directly, either using their own website or amex FHR or Visa signature (in all such cases the revenue goes directly from you to the hotel), and I would have immediately been given a double upgrade (based on guest history) and probably also comped breakfast if I asked (so there was no reason to have used Expedia's special offer).
However, since the hotel received roughly $50-per-night for my reservation from expedia (versus the $189 that expedia showed as part of my package pricing), there was no way that they could extend any consideration for such a booking.
I was sympathetic, and have never used Expedia there again.
Subsequently, I confirmed similar information with other managers at upscale hotels in the US and Canada...
The reason is that compared to Priceline and/or Expedia, anyone will be treated better (not just Amex or FHR).
When you book any hotel via Expedia or a similar site - they are paid a very low negotiated rate, which is significantly below even the lowest available direct rate with the hotel, including any corporate rates and many industry discounts.
Simply put, when you appear at a $200-per-night hotel, and in their eyes you have paid them $45; the last thing they will be thinking is how to help you or treat you special.
I have had in-depth discussions with front-office managers, duty managers, and revenue managers regarding this - and the difference between what any of the travel-consolidator websites pay them and what any other guest pays them is truly astounding.
The revenue is simply so low that it would be a significant waste of their time to do anything special to you.
At one particular hotel, I checked in together with a colleague:
1. They reserved through the hotel's website, using a special promotional code.
2. I paid through expedia, and paid actually $10 more than them (but the expedia rate included breakfast - which I why I chose it).
I had stayed at that hotel more than a dozen times, for several years.
My colleague had stayed their once before, one year previously.
They were offered an upgrade, and also given the opportunity to pay a nominal fee for a double upgrade (they took the free offer).
I was offered no upgrade - so I asked if I could have one as well (understand we were both checking together, with the same clerk).
I was told "for what we get paid from your reservation, you're lucky you have a room" and was then directed to the front-office manager who very kindly and apologetically gave me a detailed education in to how expedia-type bookings are done and received.
I was told that I could have paid the hotel directly, either using their own website or amex FHR or Visa signature (in all such cases the revenue goes directly from you to the hotel), and I would have immediately been given a double upgrade (based on guest history) and probably also comped breakfast if I asked (so there was no reason to have used Expedia's special offer).
However, since the hotel received roughly $50-per-night for my reservation from expedia (versus the $189 that expedia showed as part of my package pricing), there was no way that they could extend any consideration for such a booking.
I was sympathetic, and have never used Expedia there again.
Subsequently, I confirmed similar information with other managers at upscale hotels in the US and Canada...
As a reservations/ revenue manager of a luxury property, I can confirm that the amount of $$ we receive on an OTA (online travel agent) booking is menial. They take commissions and fees "off the top." For a booking of approx $300 on an OTA, we receive around $150, depending on the OTA and how it is sold. Many properties (not all) are happy to price match because if we price-match and book you directly we receive all $300. Even if we discount it more, let's say to $275, you are getting a better deal and so are we! Not only this but if you have to change your dates, cancel, change rooms etc. we have greater flexibility in making changes than with reservations that have come through 3rd parties. You'd be surprised how little we can change with those bookings. Additionally, OTAs make decisions about refunds/ penalties and occasionally (not always) blame the refund denial on the property itself. I have fielded angry calls from guests who were denied a refund from an OTA after I had approved it from the property level. ALWAYS book with the hotel directly! It will save you a hassle! Trust me!
Jan 21, 2019, 12:42 pm
#21
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,957
Welcome to Flyertalk. Note that the thread to which you are replying dates to 2012.
Why does your property contract to be listed by Online Travel Agencies if you are not satisfied with the value proposition?
Why does your property contract to be listed by Online Travel Agencies if you are not satisfied with the value proposition?
Jan 21, 2019, 1:46 pm
#22
Join Date: Jan 2019
Programs: Preferred Hotels and Resorts, Historic Hotels of America, HSMAI, CRME
Posts: 3
Great question! They have a large amount of money dedicated to marketing efforts. If you are visiting a city to which you have never been, you (like many travelers) would conduct an online search to find accommodations. Generally speaking, Expedia, Booking.com, and the like, are the first sites that appear on searches such as those. They also conduct direct-to-consumer marketing to their member base. Simply put, they can reach more bookers. This is especially so for new hotel properties who have yet to establish a "following." Any revenue manager will tell you that OTAs are a necessary evil, a love-hate relationship if you will. OTAs help us to fill empty rooms on nights when the demand is lower and they help us to reach guests who may not have found us otherwise.
Jan 22, 2019, 7:58 pm
#23
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Atlanta Metro
Programs: DL , AC, BA, Hhonors Diamond, IH Platinum, Bonvoy Gold, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,358
In the early days of Priceline, when it was really the "name your own price" site, there were serious problems with hotels' having a "Priceline attitude" (I'm talking about you, New York Hilton). In those days the rates were really extraordinarily low, a much bigger price difference than these days. The NY Hilton was notorious for sticking people in these undersized rooms with one double bed next to the stairwell, and then sneering at people when they asked for something better. I find that to be much less of a problem these days, partly because there are SO MANY different rates from so many different suppliers that it is really hard to single out any group for scorn, and partly because the rate differentials are not what they used to be. However, given the hotel companies' ongoing campaigns to get you to book directly with them, they must be advising the hotels to try to make a good impression with the people who comply.
All that said, just being nice and engaging at checkin can go a long way, even on a bargain-basement rate.
All that said, just being nice and engaging at checkin can go a long way, even on a bargain-basement rate.
Jan 23, 2019, 12:39 pm
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,909
So you want to take advantage of free marketing by ota but treat the guests who book through them as second tier?
i can assure you that such approach is far more likely to make said guests annoyed with your property, not ota, and promptly post negative reviews on ota and everywhere else... and of course ypu aint gonna see them coming back on any rate..
i can assure you that such approach is far more likely to make said guests annoyed with your property, not ota, and promptly post negative reviews on ota and everywhere else... and of course ypu aint gonna see them coming back on any rate..
Great question! They have a large amount of money dedicated to marketing efforts. If you are visiting a city to which you have never been, you (like many travelers) would conduct an online search to find accommodations. Generally speaking, Expedia, Booking.com, and the like, are the first sites that appear on searches such as those. They also conduct direct-to-consumer marketing to their member base. Simply put, they can reach more bookers. This is especially so for new hotel properties who have yet to establish a "following." Any revenue manager will tell you that OTAs are a necessary evil, a love-hate relationship if you will. OTAs help us to fill empty rooms on nights when the demand is lower and they help us to reach guests who may not have found us otherwise.
Jan 23, 2019, 10:29 pm
#25
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NYC/PHX
Programs: IATA, Sabre, AvgeekAgent
Posts: 1,958
So you want to take advantage of free marketing by ota but treat the guests who book through them as second tier?
i can assure you that such approach is far more likely to make said guests annoyed with your property, not ota, and promptly post negative reviews on ota and everywhere else... and of course ypu aint gonna see them coming back on any rate..
i can assure you that such approach is far more likely to make said guests annoyed with your property, not ota, and promptly post negative reviews on ota and everywhere else... and of course ypu aint gonna see them coming back on any rate..
Jan 24, 2019, 5:10 pm
#26
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: PHX, SEA
Programs: Avis President's Club, Global Entry, Hilton/Marriott Gold. No more DL/AA status.
Posts: 4,422
...
I was told "for what we get paid from your reservation, you're lucky you have a room" and was then directed to the front-office manager who very kindly and apologetically gave me a detailed education in to how expedia-type bookings are done and received.
...
I was sympathetic, and have never used Expedia there again.
I was told "for what we get paid from your reservation, you're lucky you have a room" and was then directed to the front-office manager who very kindly and apologetically gave me a detailed education in to how expedia-type bookings are done and received.
...
I was sympathetic, and have never used Expedia there again.