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"Airport Upgrade and Standby List" / Order, PALL List and issues (master thread)

"Airport Upgrade and Standby List" / Order, PALL List and issues (master thread)

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Old Jan 29, 19, 12:44 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
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Airport Upgrade and Standby Order, the PALL list
questions, upgrade anomalies, issues, etc.

NOTE: Upgrade waitlist priority changes from 1) Status, followed by 2) Date of request to 1) Status, followed by 2) Rolling EQD earning for last 365 days on 20 May 2017. Link to FT thread.

NOTE: As of 1 Jan 2017, your travel companion will "borrow" your PALL listing. Link. AA's employee newsletter also gives a complete breakdown on page 5 here: http://c.hub.aa.com/email/arrivals/2...vals_final.pdf


Main PALL list codes. Passengers are ordered by code, then elite status, then other time-based factors. Additional codes may be entered to designate other information, such as companions traveling together.
OS# = Confirmed Economy passenger awaiting seat assignment.
RF = Confirmed First Class passenger awaiting seat assignment.
DSR# = Standby First Class passenger, confirmed in Economy.
VIP# = Passenger awaiting a SWU upgrade.
UPG# = Confirmed Economy passenger awaiting mileage, complimentary, or elite sticker upgrade.
.........Within a status group, passengers are ordered by date and time of original request.
RI# = Revenue involuntary standby passenger (bumped from another flight due to oversold condition or travel disruptions).
.........Within a status group, passengers are ordered by check-in time.
RV# = Revenue voluntary standby passenger. Within a status group, passengers are ordered by check-in time.
RV = Non-status revenue passengers eligible for voluntary standby.
D% = Non-revenue standby passenger (AA employees, family, and friends), where % is an additional number code pertaining to the type of pass and not related to elite status.
VOL = Volunteer for bump to a later flight.
.........Passengers are ordered by time of volunteering (first come-first served).
DG = Passenger with involuntary (or voluntary) downgrade in class-of-service.
RL = "Flat Tire Rule" passenger missing a flight through no fault of their own or AA (L=Late, in this case)
-T = Through passenger - Addition of this suffix gives priority over other passengers in the same status group, overriding normal time-based ranking. This suffix is supposed to be used for passengers connecting from another flight.
● Status indicator numbers UPG/VIP (#) = 1 = Concierge Key; 2 = Executive Platinum; 3 = Platinum Pro; 4 = Platinum, 5 = Gold; no number = no status (e.g. UPG2/VIP2 for EP).
C/o sensei:

The following UPG priority levels are now in effect:
  • UPG1/VIP1 Concierge Key
  • UPG2/VIP2 Executive Platinum
  • UPG3/VIP3 Platinum Pro
  • UPG4/VIP4 Platinum
  • UPG5/VIP5 Gold
  • UPG/VIP No status
UPGC is used for operational upgrades

"a notable difference is that SWU requests now have status levels other than just VIP1

Revenue Standbys are cleared in the following order:
RIT (involuntary, transit)
RI (involuntary)
RV (voluntary)
RL (late)

*Numbers corresponding to elite status will determine the order of the passengers within each category.

All revenue standbys are cleared before any non-revenue standbys

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Old Aug 5, 08, 9:01 am
  #106  
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Originally Posted by ESpen36 View Post
I second this motion.
How ironic!
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Old Aug 5, 08, 9:09 am
  #107  
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Originally Posted by brp View Post
(And what is the elemental symbol for Executive Platinum anyway?)
I think you get to take your pick between Black Kryptonite, which more or less matches the card colour but is evil, and Green Kryptonite if you'd rather play the OW Emerald angle and have a better image. Either way, you'd share Kr with Krypton.
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Old Aug 5, 08, 10:13 am
  #108  
 
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Originally Posted by 777-DCA View Post
Who's "us?" Does the other person have status? Perhaps it was an EXP connected to a ticket with another passenger.

Before you start to give AA crap or give them a provide more info.
They were #1,2 on the list. And GA told them they were deleted. What else do you need?
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Old Aug 5, 08, 10:25 am
  #109  
 
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Originally Posted by jrhone View Post
............. while the AC staff need to understand that if they place someone on a list once a flight is in final, it should be stated to the passenger that due to time limits they might not be accomodated in the correct order, this is especially true if the GA has already processed the standby list. If the AC staff place an EP on the standby list at 15 minutes before departure, and the GA has already accomodated all the PL and AG passengers, are we supposed to pull a PL/AG member off the plane to accomodate the EP , in the correct order ?
What makes a flight "final" for purposes of closing the waitlist? The reason that I ask is that esp in DFW, and esp during irregular ops, I have seen flights it displayed for that were some time before departure. In some cases over 30 minutes prior to departure I have seen the handy dandy "waitlist closed" sign displayed at the gate. In some cases, I have chosen to do what the OP did and receive consumer value for my AC membership and had myself placed on the list by the AC agent. Is there a "final" status that is the only instance in which the "waitlist closed" sign appears, or is that sign also used when GA's just don't want to deal with passengers who want to get onto the list? Is there a policy here, and if so, what is the policy?
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Old Aug 5, 08, 11:05 am
  #110  
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Originally Posted by MIA-SAT View Post
What makes a flight "final" for purposes of closing the waitlist? The reason that I ask is that esp in DFW, and esp during irregular ops, I have seen flights it displayed for that were some time before departure. In some cases over 30 minutes prior to departure I have seen the handy dandy "waitlist closed" sign displayed at the gate. In some cases, I have chosen to do what the OP did and receive consumer value for my AC membership and had myself placed on the list by the AC agent. Is there a "final" status that is the only instance in which the "waitlist closed" sign appears, or is that sign also used when GA's just don't want to deal with passengers who want to get onto the list? Is there a policy here, and if so, what is the policy?
I've never closed a list so I cant answer with 100 percent accuracy.

I have heard numerous times that they do this in DFW and some of the other hubs, and the only official policy I have read is that a waitlist can be closed when the number of passengers on the list exceeds the number of passengers that can reasonably be accomodated. I was watching some lists the other day while researching something else, and saw 2-3 flights on S80's where the standby list was over 100 passengers , for flights that only have 5-6 empty seats. In those circumstances I can understand them closing the list , if you have 135 already booked and 100 on the standby list, with only 5 empty seats your going to have 95 upset passengers at the gate along with the 135 already confirmed on the flight.

You can sometimes get to the stage where the gate becomes unworkable with so many people trying to standby.
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Old Aug 5, 08, 11:06 am
  #111  
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Originally Posted by MIA-SAT View Post
What makes a flight "final" for purposes of closing the waitlist? The reason that I ask is that esp in DFW, and esp during irregular ops, I have seen flights it displayed for that were some time before departure. In some cases over 30 minutes prior to departure I have seen the handy dandy "waitlist closed" sign displayed at the gate. In some cases, I have chosen to do what the OP did and receive consumer value for my AC membership and had myself placed on the list by the AC agent. Is there a "final" status that is the only instance in which the "waitlist closed" sign appears, or is that sign also used when GA's just don't want to deal with passengers who want to get onto the list? Is there a policy here, and if so, what is the policy?
a week ago with irrops from dfw-lga the standby lists were 100+ (for 3 of the remaining fts) (aa's "field" for the number on the standby list is only two characters, so you had to manually count your place after 99), if there are only a few seats available, it is 'nice" to be on the listl, few would get a seat.
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Old Aug 5, 08, 11:25 am
  #112  
 
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But as others have noted, isn't one of the advantages of Admirals Club memberships the assistance of the agents there during irregular ops? I have never had happen to me what was mentioned in this thread, but given that AAdvantage status and being a passenger on the problem of an irregular op both move one up on the waitlist, I would not be pleased to be delisted by an agent, especially if it appeared to be laziness, or worse, a turf protection motive.

Go ahead and tell a displaced Plat or EXP that they are delisted 45 minutes before departure, it saves an agent short term work and maybe will save the agent and the airline some work in the long, long term.
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Old Aug 5, 08, 12:00 pm
  #113  
 
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...

What I posted was 100% accurate, from my perspective.

After the flight cancelled, I was one of the first to be put on the standby list for the next flight. But at the gate, I found myself at #24 on the list. I do feel I know more about AA procedures than the average traveler, yet 23 people were ahead of me on the list (almost all of whom had lower status than I do).

So those who say the standby list is automatically ordered by AAdvantage tier status are just plain wrong.

...

Last edited by JDiver; Aug 26, 08 at 6:39 pm Reason: redact exchange re deleted posts
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Old Aug 5, 08, 12:06 pm
  #114  
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Originally Posted by MIA-SAT View Post
But as others have noted, isn't one of the advantages of Admirals Club memberships the assistance of the agents there during irregular ops? I have never had happen to me what was mentioned in this thread, but given that AAdvantage status and being a passenger on the problem of an irregular op both move one up on the waitlist, I would not be pleased to be delisted by an agent, especially if it appeared to be laziness, or worse, a turf protection motive.

Yes, if you are an Admirals Club member, you can benefit from the assistance of the AAngels. You can benefit by not having to wait in a long line at the gate to be re-accomodated in the event of irregular ops. But that doesn't mean you can exploit your membership to game the system and/or undercut other travelers.

Unfortunately, in the old days, a lot of members used to receive (or wanted) "special favors" from the AAngels, such as bumping members up on the upgrade/standby lists, clearing members before the GA was ready, unblocking row 17, etc. It's not fair to the other elites and non-elites on the lists. So, these are the kinds of things that AA is trying to clamp down on to make the GAs' job easier (and therefore, to get more flights out on time).

I think it makes perfect sense for AAngels to be in regular contact with GAs, so that the AAngels' actions at the club will be in sync with the GAs' process. In many recent interactions, when I have asked for something at the club, the AAngel replies "let me call the gate to make sure it's okay, then I'll do it." That's the way to go!

Just my $0.02.
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Old Aug 5, 08, 12:20 pm
  #115  
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Originally Posted by SquareDanceGuy View Post
So those who say the standby list is automatically ordered by AAdvantage tier status are just plain wrong.
We are not going to fall out over this , or get in to an argument, but the above statement is just 100% inaccurate.

I'll leave it at that and bow out of the thread at this stage.
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Old Aug 5, 08, 12:33 pm
  #116  
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Originally Posted by SquareDanceGuy View Post
...

What I posted was 100% accurate, from my perspective.

After the flight cancelled, I was one of the first to be put on the standby list for the next flight. But at the gate, I found myself at #24 on the list. I do feel I know more about AA procedures than the average traveler, yet 23 people were ahead of me on the list (almost all of whom had lower status than I do).

...
in the thread order on standby list problem which i started on 7/28/08, i was in a similar predicament. jrhone posted super info re standby lists with irrops. in that thread, i gave the four flights i tried to go standby and even though i was in the 90's on two and 70's on one and 16 on another, from one of his responses, i was "bested" by an exp who checked in 1 hour earlier than i did (see post #38 in that thread.) --should one trust the monitor list? [in another post in the thread bolded, people with through status names sometimes don't even appear on the monitor for upgrade status (using evips) post #7 thread.]

Last edited by JDiver; Aug 26, 08 at 6:40 pm Reason: redact deleted text from other post(s)
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Old Aug 5, 08, 12:43 pm
  #117  
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Originally Posted by nrr View Post
a week ago with irrops from dfw-lga the standby lists were 100+ (for 3 of the remaining fts) (aa's "field" for the number on the standby list is only two characters, so you had to manually count your place after 99), if there are only a few seats available, it is 'nice" to be on the listl, few would get a seat.

I dont know about the monitors, but I am looking at a Sabre list right now that is numbered 1-172 .
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Old Aug 5, 08, 12:50 pm
  #118  
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Originally Posted by SquareDanceGuy View Post
So those who say the standby list is automatically ordered by AAdvantage tier status are just plain wrong.
We know for certain that circumstances can lead to an EXP being bumped down the list by other EXPs or even by non-EXPs, and while it would be interesting to know exactly what happend in your case, jrhone has established enough credibility for posting consistently reliable information that I think it's fair to conclude that, although frustrating, you probably are not aware of all of the circumstances that led to your being pushed down the list.
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Old Aug 5, 08, 12:54 pm
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Blumie View Post
We know for certain that circumstances can lead to an EXP being bumped down the list by other EXPs or even by non-EXPs, and while it would be interesting to know exactly what happend in your case, jrhone has established enough credibility for posting consistently reliable information that I think it's fair to conclude that, although frustrating, you probably are not aware of all of the circumstances that led to your being pushed down the list.
Definitely agree with jrhone's value and credibility. Is there any doubt?

But I concur that it would be interesting to know how an AA-savvy EXP who rebooked quickly could end up 24th on the list. Not saying that there are not reasons, but it would be instructive to all of us to find out how something like this happens. We've never been more and like 3 or 4 on any list (upgrade or standby), so this is an interesting (disturbing) event.

Cheers.
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Old Aug 5, 08, 3:06 pm
  #120  
 
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Some folks seem awfully quick to point out that I post inaccuracies. Which fact below do you feel is inaccurate?
  1. I was booked on AA 395 DFW-SAN, 1 Aug departing 12:30 pm.
  2. Flight was delayed. I asked GA why. She said mechanical problem. A light bulb on the wing did not work so they replaced the bulb but it still did not work. They were still looking at it.
  3. Mechanic informed GA the plane had to be taken out of service. GA made announcement that the flight was cancelled.
  4. I went to nearby Terminal A AC and told 'em 395 was cancelled. I asked if they could confirm me on a later flight, even if it's a connection. They could not confirm anything, but put me on standby for flight 1701 leaving at 1:45 pm. They said I was #3 on the list.
  5. As it was already time to board that flight, I went to the gate. There I saw I was #24 on the list.
  6. I simply could not believe that an EXP was #24 on the list, and I reasoned that the display must be wrong.
  7. While waiting for the 15-minute mark to arrive, I talked with a handful (6 to 8) of other pax who were on the same cancelled flight. We compared BPs and I could clearly see that most had no status although one lady I talked to was GLD.
  8. Figuring the display must be wrong (i.e. that I really was high up on the list), I waited until the GA called standbys. She called them in approximately the same order as the display. She called the man at #2 whose wife was at #6. I had not visited with the man but I did talk with the wife who had no status. The GA cleared the wife immediately after clearing the husband (but the wife would have probably cleared anyway). In total 7 people cleared the flight, including some non-status I had talked with on the sidelines, as well as the GLD lady.
  9. After the flight closed, I went to the gate for flight #1429 leaving at 2:20 pm. They announced the aircraft had been changed from a 757 to a 767, so all pax must check in again to get a new seat assignment. Standbys were to remain seated in the departure lounge. A huge long queue formed to see the Gate Agent. The standby list did not ever display at this gate. I went to the Terminal D AC to find out how it looked for standby.
  10. At the D AC the AAngel said that she doesn't know why I was #24 on the previous list; I should have been #1. She typed on her computer and told me I was now #1 for the flight leaving at 2:20 pm. She also confirmed me on the flight after that, leaving at 4 pm. I asked to be put on the airport upgrade list for that 4 pm flight.
  11. I waited at the gate for the 2:20 pm flight (which ended up leaving about an hour late) until the flight closed. At this gate, the standby list did not display on the screen behind the GAs, so I have no idea whether I was really #1 on the list.
  12. I then went to the gate for the 4 pm flight #1317, on which I was already confirmed in coach. My upgrade did not clear so I boarded and flew in coach.
  13. Upon returning to DFW on Sunday 3 August I asked a GA friend to look at the flights. For flight #1701 (the 1:45 pm flight where I was listed at #24 on the list) she said she could not see me on the standby list at all. But she did see me as #1 on the list for the 2:20 pm flight #1429 (i.e. the one which left over an hour late because they changed a 757 to a 767 and had to manually reassign every seat).
Which fact(s) do you consider inaccurate? <redacted>

I continue to investigate this matter even until now, and I wrote to AA customer relations. Because the second AC AAngel (in terminal D) did significant typing before telling me I was now #1 on the list, it's possible the first AAngel made an honest mistake in listing me for flight 1701. Because the GA two days later could find no record of my being on standby for #1701, it's possible the D AAngel deleted the mistake and started over. Still, the star file says EXPs will "automatically" be assigned standby priority based on status, so the question remains: how can an EXP end up at #24 on standby behind a bunch of GLDs and non-status passengers who were all on the same cancelled flight?

<redacted>

Originally Posted by jrhone View Post
We are not going to fall out over this , or get in to an argument, but the above statement is just 100% inaccurate.

I'll leave it at that and bow out of the thread at this stage.

Last edited by JDiver; Aug 26, 08 at 6:42 pm Reason: remove irrelevant details (gate numbers, etc.) / redact re deleted post
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