FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   American Airlines | AAdvantage (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage-733/)
-   -   AAdvantage Program Changes for 2024-2025 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/2147361-aadvantage-program-changes-2024-2025-a.html)

hhdl Jan 10, 2024 9:05 pm


Originally Posted by stant (Post 35897604)
you get to pick two. if you go for the charitable contribution thats 500 clams, 400 after tax deduction.
but you can also go for 60k points. thats half of a saver international j award. the cost basis for that has GOT to be well over $400. Heck even if you dont ascribe more fuel burn to premium seats, just the jet A costs more than that for a seat, let alone staff, equipment depreciation, etc.

The costs you list do have something in common: they're 99+% the same whether the seat gets filled or not. The marginal cost of an extra body and their baggage across the Atlantic is low-/mid-three figure dollars (that's basically what airlines sell/barter partner one-way J awards to each other for... this accounting of having the FF programs buy awards at not much more the marginal cost also creates the fictional facts/factual fictions about the relative profitability of the metal tubes business vs. the bank customer acquisition business (the God's honest truth: it ain't that simple)).

GrayAnderson Jan 10, 2024 9:34 pm


Originally Posted by Catbert10 (Post 35896342)
AA views their MM program as forever tainted by the CC miles that used to be counted toward MM status. Maybe in enough years for the credit call MMers to age out AA will reconsider the program.

I mean, they could always just throw those miles out for the purposes of future LT status bumps or set up two charts (one with those miles, one without) going forward?

[Or, given everything else, just admit that big CC spenders make more for them and count the miles at some reduced rate going forward?]

nowayout203 Jan 10, 2024 10:19 pm

AA is also conveniently closing the loophole for duplicate/fictitious hold bookings by requiring AAdvantage account/number for 24 hour holds.

stant Jan 10, 2024 11:53 pm


Originally Posted by hhdl (Post 35897757)
The costs you list do have something in common: they're 99+% the same whether the seat gets filled or not. The marginal cost of an extra body and their baggage across the Atlantic is low-/mid-three figure dollars (that's basically what airlines sell/barter partner one-way J awards to each other for... this accounting of having the FF programs buy awards at not much more the marginal cost also creates the fictional facts/factual fictions about the relative profitability of the metal tubes business vs. the bank customer acquisition business (the God's honest truth: it ain't that simple)).

when viewed individually and in a vacuum, you might be correct, but if award seats were eliminated tomorrow, airlines could fly less flights, burn less fuel, do less maintenance, have less staff manhours, etc. american's miles outstanding are worth billions.

WannaTheater Jan 11, 2024 4:23 am


Originally Posted by nowayout203 (Post 35897894)
AA is also conveniently closing the loophole for duplicate/fictitious hold bookings by requiring AAdvantage account/number for 24 hour holds.

Is this speculation, or fact?

nowayout203 Jan 11, 2024 6:21 am


Originally Posted by WannaTheater (Post 35898373)
Is this speculation, or fact?

possibly a bit of both. Only AAdvantage members will be able to use 24 hour holds in the near future. The speculative part is that they’ll likely enforce that by requiring the member to login (which will populate their member number in reservations). By design and from experience, AA will prevent identical reservations for the same
AAdvantage number.

JJeffrey Jan 11, 2024 6:38 am


Originally Posted by nowayout203 (Post 35898579)
possibly a bit of both. Only AAdvantage members will be able to use 24 hour holds in the near future. The speculative part is that they’ll likely enforce that by requiring the member to login (which will populate their member number in reservations). By design and from experience, AA will prevent identical reservations for the same
AAdvantage number.

AA hasn't prevented duplicate bookings since before covid, AAdvantage numbers in the reservation or not.

What will happen is if you have duplicate reservation on hold then one (or possibly both) has always been subject to cancellation when the system does overnight sweeps.

So requiring an AA# on the reservation in order to put it on hold isn't going to change anything in this regard.

JFKLAX321 Jan 11, 2024 8:03 am


Originally Posted by donotblink (Post 35897014)
As an FYI SWUs have a book value of about $100 internally at AA and those funds do get allocated to the revenue manager(s) responsible for monetizing those market(s). If a single SWU is applied to multiple flights, the $100 or so gets split between the applicable markets. This isn't published online anywhere to the best of my knowledge, but I have a friend in AA revenue management who told me this.

As others have pointed out you can also get miles and trip credits that can be up to $500 or more if you also have an AA cobranded credit card.

The "book value" of an SWU has nothing to do with the real value of an SWU. People will value each of these awards very differently. I couldn't imagine picking anything other than SWUs, but I get a lot of value out of them--certainly more than $125 (half of trip credit) / 15k miles (half of miles credit) worth. I can see how others wouldn't though. And that is why it's nice AA offers choices.


Originally Posted by hhdl (Post 35897757)
The costs you list do have something in common: they're 99+% the same whether the seat gets filled or not. The marginal cost of an extra body and their baggage across the Atlantic is low-/mid-three figure dollars (that's basically what airlines sell/barter partner one-way J awards to each other for... this accounting of having the FF programs buy awards at not much more the marginal cost also creates the fictional facts/factual fictions about the relative profitability of the metal tubes business vs. the bank customer acquisition business (the God's honest truth: it ain't that simple)).

Agree with all of this. You also have to keep in mind that AA doesn't value miles based entirely on what well-informed, value-minded flyertalk members redeem miles for. They value the miles in the aggregate, taking into account how everyone redeems their miles. Most people don't redeem wisely, and that means the overall liability of miles is much less than that of a cherrypicked scenario when someone redeems a one-way in J to Europe or Asia for under 100,000 miles (which--at least from the west coast--takes work to find).

donotblink Jan 11, 2024 12:03 pm


Originally Posted by JFKLAX321 (Post 35898908)
The "book value" of an SWU has nothing to do with the real value of an SWU. People will value each of these awards very differently. I couldn't imagine picking anything other than SWUs, but I get a lot of value out of them--certainly more than $125 (half of trip credit) / 15k miles (half of miles credit) worth. I can see how others wouldn't though. And that is why it's nice AA offers choices.



Agree with all of this. You also have to keep in mind that AA doesn't value miles based entirely on what well-informed, value-minded flyertalk members redeem miles for. They value the miles in the aggregate, taking into account how everyone redeems their miles. Most people don't redeem wisely, and that means the overall liability of miles is much less than that of a cherrypicked scenario when someone redeems a one-way in J to Europe or Asia for under 100,000 miles (which--at least from the west coast--takes work to find).

I 100% agree with you, I personally value SWUs around $500--I'd buy them at $100 all day long if I could. That being said, I was responding to someone who IIRC said SWUs cost AA nothing, and I wanted to let them know that they do in fact have a book value to AA.

GrayAnderson Jan 11, 2024 12:10 pm


Originally Posted by donotblink (Post 35899754)
I 100% agree with you, I personally value SWUs around $500--I'd buy them at $100 all day long if I could. That being said, I was responding to someone who IIRC said SWUs cost AA nothing, and I wanted to let them know that they do in fact have a book value to AA.

I think the general point is that while there's a book value, it's not "nothing" but also not "substantial" in the sense that it seemed was implied.

Herb687 Jan 11, 2024 1:06 pm


Originally Posted by donotblink (Post 35899754)
I 100% agree with you, I personally value SWUs around $500--I'd buy them at $100 all day long if I could. That being said, I was responding to someone who IIRC said SWUs cost AA nothing, and I wanted to let them know that they do in fact have a book value to AA.

I'm not even convinced that they have book value to AA in the true accounting sense of the word. Just because there may be a transfer pricing mechanism to apply $100 to a segment on which a SWU is burned (i.e. charge AAdvantage $100 and move it to the JFK-LHR flight) this doesn't mean that there's any impact on AA's external profitability. This is different of course than award miles which do actually have accounting value and impact reported earnings.

Bottom line: moving $100 in funny money from one pocket to another via transfer pricing wouldn't impact AA's cash flow.

As for what I would pay for an SWU? Different question entirely. Depends on one's willingness to travel in Y. If one is completely unwilling to fly in Y, then an SWU only has value to the passenger if it can be confirmed at time of booking.

bse118 Jan 11, 2024 1:42 pm

Tell you what, I for one find tremendous utility/value in SWUs and I do not care one iota whether they have any "cost" to AA.

Mr. BoH Jan 11, 2024 3:46 pm


Originally Posted by beachfan (Post 35893362)
if the 5 day holds on awards are going away, it’s a net negative. I font know why they would announce it otherwise, there already is a 24 hour hold on paid fares.

Would 5-day award holds going away even be a big negative? Couldn't you just book an award and then cancel it within 5 days (or even later) with no penalty?

JFKLAX321 Jan 11, 2024 4:02 pm


Originally Posted by donotblink (Post 35899754)
I 100% agree with you, I personally value SWUs around $500--I'd buy them at $100 all day long if I could. That being said, I was responding to someone who IIRC said SWUs cost AA nothing, and I wanted to let them know that they do in fact have a book value to AA.

Apologies to the extent I made it seem like I disagreed with you. I don't, and I didn't mean to imply that there was no book value / "cost" to AA for SWUs. As just a general matter, AA's financial statements suggest liabilities of over $3 billion for the AAdvantage program (with just over 9 billion miles in circulation), so they're definitely not treating these types of elite benefits as giveaways either.

JFKLAX321 Jan 11, 2024 4:04 pm


Originally Posted by Mr. BoH (Post 35900508)
Would 5-day award holds going away even be a big negative? Couldn't you just book an award and then cancel it within 5 days (or even later) with no penalty?

Not if you don't have the miles yet. It's less of an issue with AA since there aren't many transfer partners, but there are situations where it could be useful (e.g., Marriott transfers).


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 8:49 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.