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-   -   Ways American Can Improve the Flagship Program (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/2137525-ways-american-can-improve-flagship-program.html)

gophish11 Oct 6, 2023 4:35 pm


Originally Posted by beachfan (Post 35643032)
Carlos speaks wisely (except I'm not a fan of the seats)..

AA could triple what they spend on wine and I still wouldn't drink it. Emirates, JAL, Cathay have drinkable wine in First, but even then, the wine in J is weak.

It's all about the hard product. The 772 coffin style J seats are weak. At one point, when the 77W seats were relatively new, they had the best in class. They need ot focus on that, not doors to make the coffin complete.

It appears the Adient Ascent seat makes good use of the available space on the 787, however looks extremely similar to the current Collins Aerospace product, but with - as you said - a door. The footwell looks just as small and it appears there's less storage - perhaps giving a bit more knee room for side-sleepers. The Cirrus seat on AA's 77W is among my favorite overall products, and might be my favorite J seat for sleeping comfort. Even Qsuites alternating/staggered config pushes my legs to the side and doesn't leave adequate knee space. With the limited space on the Dreamliner, it's tough to hit the right balance of privacy and space. Given that, I don't really mind the CA Super Diamond seats.

fender5787 Oct 6, 2023 5:21 pm

I hate to say it but after trying the adient ascent on QRs 789s, imho it’s an absolute downgrade compared to both the 77W (which is my favorite J seat after the Apex suites seen on JL and preferable to qsuites) seats and the super diamonds on the 772/789s. Much tighter around the shoulders and an even smaller footwell to boot.

carlosdca Oct 6, 2023 5:33 pm


Originally Posted by beachfan (Post 35643032)
It's all about the hard product. The 772 coffin style J seats are weak. At one point, when the 77W seats were relatively new, they had the best in class. They need ot focus on that, not doors to make the coffin complete.

I recently flew on the new BA business class seats with the door.
That door is such a joke. When walking down the aisle, one can 100% see every single seat and what people are doing, so much for privacy.
The orientation of the seats already makes for a private seat as people are looking away from each other on both sides of the aisle.
The door is pointless. Oh wait. It did serve a purpose. The BA FA at one point after dinner, closed my door while I was fully awake. I felt like she was saying "I'm done with you, go to sleep". LOL.

Antarius Oct 6, 2023 5:44 pm


Originally Posted by carlosdca (Post 35643301)
I recently flew on the new BA business class seats with the door.
That door is such a joke. When walking down the aisle, one can 100% see every single seat and what people are doing, so much for privacy.
The orientation of the seats already makes for a private seat as people are looking away from each other on both sides of the aisle.
The door is pointless. Oh wait. It did serve a purpose. The BA FA at one point after dinner, closed my door while I was fully awake. I felt like she was saying "I'm done with you, go to sleep". LOL.

Reminds me of one of my favorite images of all time:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...33a911a4c5.png

pauleeepaul Oct 6, 2023 6:16 pm


Originally Posted by Antarius (Post 35643113)
Regarding the OPs question - to make AA J better, they need someone with authority running the cabin. Right now, it's a bunch of equals with no supervision. Some do great, others largely exist on the plane sight unseen and some are like Stasi prison guards. Until there is an actual Purser on board with the ability to manage the flight, AA will continue to have hit or miss and industry trailing service and soft product.

I doubt this is likely. It would take a severe downward turn in business performance to get the union to the table. At a level of cash burn that AA could not sustain. A prisoners dilemma, if you will.

Antarius Oct 6, 2023 7:53 pm


Originally Posted by pauleeepaul (Post 35643375)
I doubt this is likely. It would take a severe downward turn in business performance to get the union to the table. At a level of cash burn that AA could not sustain. A prisoners dilemma, if you will.

extremly unlikely. It needs someone with vision and willingness to do what Joyce did with QF. QF used to be like AA, rudderless and lurching from financial disaster to another too.

As long as AA hires vision-free people like Arpey, Isom etc. and APFA continue to grossly redefine the word professional nothing will change.

Buster CT1K Oct 6, 2023 11:15 pm

I used to think the door in J is hokey and ineffective.

but after several flights in BA J I have come to really like and appreciate it. It does increase privacy and makes it less likely that two persons passing each other in the aisle step into my space. I do sleep better and rest better with a door. So I find I rate my flight better with a door than without.

As to the quality of flight attendants, I believe that JetBlue is on the right track. JetBlue trains, a cadre of specialized mint class flight attendants. They are paid more and must undergo special selection tests and special training. They take special pride in their work. Singapore Airlines also especially selects its premium class flight attendants.

wutlol Oct 6, 2023 11:58 pm


Originally Posted by gophish11 (Post 35639940)
  1. Attentive FAs that seem to enjoy (or at least not resent) their work. I've had some flawless crews, but there's no excuse for how bad it can sometimes be. I don't need white glove service, but I'll take an AS or WN flight attendant any day of the week. Consistently offering PDB, a proactive refill or two, and clearing plates and trash - that's the only thing separating AA and most international carriers from a service standpoint, but it does make a big difference to the pax experience.


Does AA require (or intend to implement) a specific training programme for Flagship FAs? I find that when airlines tend to do these J/F oriented programs that standards are more rigidly adhered to and customer outcomes tend to at least be more uniform, if not also better.

carlosdca Oct 7, 2023 12:21 pm


Originally Posted by wutlol (Post 35643818)

Does AA require (or intend to implement) a specific training programme for Flagship FAs? I find that when airlines tend to do these J/F oriented programs that standards are more rigidly adhered to and customer outcomes tend to at least be more uniform, if not also better.

Are you familiar at all how FA are assigned to routes?
​​​

jtav559 Oct 7, 2023 12:57 pm

To address OP's original premise....
  1. Improving the food and bev offerings on AA Flagship routes. Some of the food I have had over the years (it has been about a decade since they rolled out the flagship program in earnest), it always seems to fall a little short of expectations. Now, I am not expecting EK/QR/SQ type meals, but it would not take much additional investment to improve the food and beverage offerings. Spend an additional $5 to $10 per plate, and you would have a much better product. And specifically on the beverage side, the wines they are peddling in the J cabins are $20 or less at BevMo.... seems a bit cheap in the light of the cost of a J ticket.
  2. FA training for soft product / service - I think that FA participation in an improved F&B program is key to successful execution and presentation to the customer. Can spend $100 a plate extra, but without some buy-in from FA's in adhering to standards of performance and presentation, it will always fall flat. The food doesn't serve itself!
  3. Keep up the hard product investment - AA has, at least for the cabin at the front of the plane, seemed to really want to lead the pack for a solid hard product in recent times. The 77W rollout, the 787 program, and refresh of 772's were all done pretty well all things considered. The only flop was the ying-yang connected J seat movement issue, but even when I have been in those seats, it didn't seem as bad as the internet made it out to be. They seem poised to keep this up with the new J cabins coming down the line for 77W refresh, 787 v2, and 321XLR.
  4. Lounges - Hopefully the Summer 2023 lounge refresh program will have some trickle down applications to the FL's in the network. The food and bev offerings there seem to always be a little short of other airlines, but still a far sight better than the AC. I would love to see the Flagship Dining be kept and re-vamped to make it more accessible, but still a special experience in terms of sit down dining.

carlosdca Oct 7, 2023 1:51 pm


Originally Posted by jtav559 (Post 35645185)
To address OP's original premise....
FA training for soft product / service -

There is not a dedicated group of FAs that are assigned to flagship cabins.
FAs bid for the routes and cabin they want to work on.
The prioritization of who is at the top and gets what they want is not based on training, is not based on performance.
Seniority trumps everything else.
You can train the FAs as much as you want, but that' not going to change how the FAs perform as there is no accountability.

jtav559 Oct 7, 2023 9:34 pm


Originally Posted by carlosdca (Post 35645288)
There is not a dedicated group of FAs that are assigned to flagship cabins.
FAs bid for the routes and cabin they want to work on.
The prioritization of who is at the top and gets what they want is not based on training, is not based on performance.
Seniority trumps everything else.
You can train the FAs as much as you want, but that' not going to change how the FAs perform as there is no accountability.

Oh, I whole-heartedly agree with that synopsis.
It is a shame that the union contracts have devolved from representing a competent and professional workforce, to simply protecting members job spot at all costs - on the job performance, skill, and ability be damned.

jerseytom Oct 8, 2023 8:03 am


Originally Posted by S80 (Post 35640015)
Of course, but there's actually plans to open one there (and at PHL).

Source on that? I'd heard of the PHL work but not CLT.

scubadu Oct 8, 2023 8:31 am


Originally Posted by jerseytom (Post 35646837)
Source on that? I'd heard of the PHL work but not CLT.

To my knowledge there is no plan to open a FL at CLT. I believe there is discussion about a new Admiral's Club, but not FL.

I suppose at some point it could change though. Frankly, I think CLT probably has more long haul international than LAX at this point, so it would make sense. But I can find no evidence/source that AA has ever used the word "Flagship Lounge" with respect to CLT.

Regards

dvs7310 Oct 8, 2023 8:41 am

I really don't think Dine on Demand is asking too much, especially for pre-orders. How difficult is it to cook a meal when the passenger wants it? I actually did a pseudo-Dine on Demand in May on AA. I had forgotten that I did the pre-order and filled up too much in the LHR CX lounge. I asked the FA if it was possible to delay my meal and she had to ask the purser but did agree to bring it a bit later. I actually wouldn't do it again because the conversation was uncomfortable, but effective. An official QR style Dine on Demand doesn't really create a ton of extra work for the FA's and would allow people to eat a nice meal in the lounge then have their onboard meal nearer the end of the flight which is really what I prefer if there's a good lounge at the departure airport.

The only other request I can think of for Flagship, please stop taking the headphones away a full hour before landing. That's offensive, they are 3 pronged and useless in most consumer devices, I promise I'm not going to steal them. AA is one of the very very few airlines that still takes them away prior to landing.


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