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AA ticketed QR flights: e-ticket disappeared, had to buy walk-up fare, now what?

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AA ticketed QR flights: e-ticket disappeared, had to buy walk-up fare, now what?

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Old Jun 6, 2022, 2:36 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by USFlyerUS
I'm looking forward to seeing how this gets resolved. I'm just not convinced the OP is due anything other than a refund of his ticket, which he got. If he can get more, I'll be pleasantly surprised. If there's specific contract language that says he's due more if one party fails to deliver, I'm happy to review that too and amend my opinion.
Contracts can sometimes work that way—it's called a liquidated damages clause—that specifies what one party gets if the other party fails to deliver. But it's certainly not required, and most contracts don't have them. More commonly, you work out what the party who breached the contract owes the other party based on the actual facts of what would make the other party whole.

If by default you just got what you paid refunded in the case of a contract breach by the other party, that wouldn't make a lot of sense, because it would actually negate the whole contract. Think about it: if a party can perform or not at their whim on penalty of a refund at most, they actually have no obligations whatsoever.
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 2:37 pm
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by WeekendTraveler
I'm not a litigator, but I would think that the OP could claim that AA committed a tort by screwing up the ticket, and thus could make a claim for damages beyond what the conditions of carriage specify. But I would still thoroughly review all conditions of carriage of both airlines before taking action.
They wouldn't need to claim there was a tort—just claim a breach of the contract. The COC doesn't need to spell out damages, it just needs to not limit them.
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 2:39 pm
  #63  
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Originally Posted by SamOF
If by default you just got what you paid refunded in the case of a contract breach by the other party, that wouldn't make a lot of sense, because it would actually negate the whole contract. Think about it: if a party can perform or not at their whim on penalty of a refund at most, they actually have no obligations whatsoever.
Playing devil's advocate, and I'm not a litigator: I regularly buy first-class tickets. AA rebooks me in coach in case of a flight cancellation and simply refunds a fraction of the fare difference. So in my case, AA treats whatever agreement we have as one that it can perform or not and give a refund at most.
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 2:56 pm
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by SamOF
Contracts can sometimes work that way—it's called a liquidated damages clause—that specifies what one party gets if the other party fails to deliver. But it's certainly not required, and most contracts don't have them. More commonly, you work out what the party who breached the contract owes the other party based on the actual facts of what would make the other party whole.

If by default you just got what you paid refunded in the case of a contract breach by the other party, that wouldn't make a lot of sense, because it would actually negate the whole contract. Think about it: if a party can perform or not at their whim on penalty of a refund at most, they actually have no obligations whatsoever.
Understood. But, AA's contract has a limitation of liability clause:
"Limit of liability: You agree we are not liable for special, consequential, indirect or incidental damages that arise from this agreement, even if we knew, should’ve known or were advised damages were possible, including from lost, damaged or delayed bags (including lost revenue or business interruption)."
I'm failing to see how OP's damages don't fall into this clause and thus limits AA's liability to effectively what he paid for his actual AA ticket. And, again, this is another reason why I would have opted for a one night hotel stay instead of paying $3K+ out of pocket.
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Last edited by USFlyerUS; Jun 6, 2022 at 3:03 pm
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 2:57 pm
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by SamOF
They wouldn't need to claim there was a tort—just claim a breach of the contract. The COC doesn't need to spell out damages, it just needs to not limit them.
It does limit them. See my prior post.
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 3:04 pm
  #66  
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Originally Posted by USFlyerUS
Understood. But, AA's contract has a limitation of liability clause:
"Limit of liability: You agree we are not liable for special, consequential, indirect or incidental damages that arise from this agreement, even if we knew, should’ve known or were advised damages were possible, including from lost, damaged or delayed bags (including lost revenue or business interruption)."
I'm failing to see how OP's damages don't fall into this clause and thus limits AA's liability to effectively what he paid for his actual AA ticket. And, again, this is another reason why I would have opted for a one night hotel stay instead of paying $3K+ out of pocket.
I would argue that having to buy a replacement ticket was foreseeable, and thus not an indirect or similar damage.

I see that the conditions of carriage are under Texas law, which I know nothing about, though.
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 4:15 pm
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by USFlyerUS
Understood. But, AA's contract has a limitation of liability clause:
"Limit of liability: You agree we are not liable for special, consequential, indirect or incidental damages that arise from this agreement, even if we knew, should’ve known or were advised damages were possible, including from lost, damaged or delayed bags (including lost revenue or business interruption)."
I'm failing to see how OP's damages don't fall into this clause and thus limits AA's liability to effectively what he paid for his actual AA ticket. And, again, this is another reason why I would have opted for a one night hotel stay instead of paying $3K+ out of pocket.
they may or may not govern. If they are buried, and never seen, they purchaser can’t agree. Also it’s a contract of adhesion. May not get them anywhere, but it might in small claims court.
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 4:24 pm
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by USFlyerUS
Understood. But, AA's contract has a limitation of liability clause:
"Limit of liability: You agree we are not liable for special, consequential, indirect or incidental damages that arise from this agreement, even if we knew, should’ve known or were advised damages were possible, including from lost, damaged or delayed bags (including lost revenue or business interruption)."
I'm failing to see how OP's damages don't fall into this clause and thus limits AA's liability to effectively what he paid for his actual AA ticket. And, again, this is another reason why I would have opted for a one night hotel stay instead of paying $3K+ out of pocket.
That's not what that means. These all refer to things that stem from the breach—for example, if the OP missed a business meeting, or the stress made him sick. These are direct damages from the breach of the contract—"give me what you agreed to provide in the contract" is as non-special, non-consequential, and direct as a damage claim could possibly be.
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 4:25 pm
  #69  
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Originally Posted by beachfan
they may or may not govern. If they are buried, and never seen, they purchaser can’t agree. Also it’s a contract of adhesion. May not get them anywhere, but it might in small claims court.
The terms in CoC has been incorporated by reference and acknowledged by DoT regulation since the beginning of time.
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 4:27 pm
  #70  
 
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Originally Posted by WeekendTraveler
Playing devil's advocate, and I'm not a litigator: I regularly buy first-class tickets. AA rebooks me in coach in case of a flight cancellation and simply refunds a fraction of the fare difference. So in my case, AA treats whatever agreement we have as one that it can perform or not and give a refund at most.
I think there's a specific clause that disclaims liability for downgrades beyond the refund, IIRC? And if it's after a flight cancellation (not just a random downgrade) then the flight cancellation terms would likely govern.
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 4:46 pm
  #71  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
There is no reason at all why there would be any issue for the one person to transit on their own - using an argument that an airport in another country had an issue on a trip makes no sense, Might just as well argue not to transit at GAtwick due to issues that occurred in Amsterdam

If the passengers are both independant adults, then no reason why one would not be able to travel without the other.
agreed. I have transited DOH many times as a petite solo female. The first was at the tender age of 26 on an economy ticket. To say it was a breeze understates how easy it was. I’ve never transited AUH or DXB but have no reason to believe it would be any more or less stressful for me on account of my gender or size.
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 4:57 pm
  #72  
 
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My last words on this: I still recommend pursuing a customer service voucher of some sort. It will have a far higher chance of success and not drag the OP in the mud sorting through all the various issues we're debating here. Maybe it's because I'm older, but I prefer to cut my losses and settle matters rather than fighting to the bitter end, even if I know with 100% certainty I'm right.
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 5:07 pm
  #73  
 
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Originally Posted by WeekendTraveler
Playing devil's advocate, and I'm not a litigator: I regularly buy first-class tickets. AA rebooks me in coach in case of a flight cancellation and simply refunds a fraction of the fare difference. So in my case, AA treats whatever agreement we have as one that it can perform or not and give a refund at most.
Perhaps this is why the DOT needs to both require airlines to rebook on any airline if they can' t offer your ticketed cabin. Also, the DOT should be forcing airlines to calculate a refund in a manner that is fair to the passenger, not the airline. Either the difference whwen the ticket is bought or even better the difference between the fair paid in first and the lowest fare paid by any passenger in the lower cabin.

The way I protect myself is ( whenever possible ) a coach ticket and upfare. Say a Y ticket is $ 350 I buy many cases on the next page there will an offer " upgrade for $ 500 ". On my usual airlines, I will buy the Y ticket and then in a separate transaction will use a seperate transaction for the first class . If I do get downgraded I can ether do a chargback ( upgraded seat not provided) or sue in provincial SCC, if the refund is less than was was charged to upgrade. The airline would have no defence aginst this as the service in the second transaction was not provided.
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 5:11 pm
  #74  
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Originally Posted by SamOF
I think there's a specific clause that disclaims liability for downgrades beyond the refund, IIRC? And if it's after a flight cancellation (not just a random downgrade) then the flight cancellation terms would likely govern.
I don't know, but my general view of terms of carriage is that they're pretty favorable to American. If I were the OP, I'd file a lawsuit in small claims court (or a class action in "real" court) and try to argue outside of the terms of carriage.
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Old Jun 6, 2022, 5:13 pm
  #75  
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Originally Posted by SamOF
If AA breached that part of the contract, which would mean refusing to refund your ticket or rebook you after a flight cancellation, you might be able to buy a new ticket to mitigate the damages.
They did refund him.

The question is whether AA has fulfilled their obligation if they strand you mid-trip and refund you (when a refund will not come close to covering your cost of getting home) or if they are required to transport you home.

I'm not saying that that's what happened here. OP chose to take matters into his own hands and bought a full fare ticket rather than taking the time to work with AA and give them a chance to transport him home (even if it meant being delayed by a day). And I think that this is why, in the end, he's not entitled to anything beyond the refund of his award ticket. But one could certainly argue the opposite, which is why we have courts. One could argue that being delayed by a day is not reasonable, and OP acted reasonably by buying the cheapest ticket which was available to him and would get him home at his originally scheduled time.


Originally Posted by USFlyerUS
Understood. But, AA's contract has a limitation of liability clause:
"Limit of liability: You agree we are not liable for special, consequential, indirect or incidental damages that arise from this agreement, even if we knew, should’ve known or were advised damages were possible, including from lost, damaged or delayed bags (including lost revenue or business interruption)."
I'm failing to see how OP's damages don't fall into this clause
OP's damages were the cost of getting himself home. These are not consequential/indirect/incidental damages. Getting him home is what AA is contracted to do.

For example, say I'm flying somewhere for a meeting. My flight is cancelled, I miss my meeting, get fired, and lose out on a month's income while I find another job. This section is saying that AA is only responsible for getting me where I'm going, and their liability is limited to the cost of getting me there. They aren't responsible for my lost income as a result of the fact that they failed to live up to their end of contract. But they ARE responsible for the cost of getting me there. The question is whether I have to wait and let them rebook me whenever they want or if I can just buy a walk-up ticket and demand reimbursement. I suspect that the answer is somewhere in the middle and I would have to wait a "reasonable" amount of time for them to rebook me, which OP did not do (IMO).

But I'm sure that an attorney could argue that OP acted reasonably and attempted to mitigate the damages (he did buy a coach ticket after all)
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