js1993

It's more like $11,000 for current top-level elites after the credits UA gave out, compared to $18,000+ at AA.

I know this is increasingly SpenderTalk and not FlyerTalk, but we're talking about people like the OP who actually fly a lot, not the CC/partner spenders who are trying to game the system.

VegasGambler

I think a lot of people are both. I plan to retain EXP this year with somewhere between $5k to $10k spend. That's not flying a little; it's booking cheap fares due to flexible dates (leisure travel). I'm currently in Mexico on a $450 ($300 base fare) basic economy round trip. 11F in a 321 on the way there; upgraded to F on the way back. It sure is nice to use those elite benefits on BE tickets. But it takes a LOT of $300 base fares to get to $18k spend, or even $15k. So, yes, it's nice to supplement my flying in a way that's profitable to AA and get rewarded with status for doing so. What's wrong with that? If people want to spend over $18k on F or J long hauls they can. It's nice that there's another path for the rest of us.

If I was an infrequent flyer I would just pay for MCE or F on every flight and ignore status. But I fly enough that that's too much money (or at least more than I want to spend) so the status is valuable to me, and so I take this path to retain it. So yes it's still "flyertalk". If you don't fly why get the status? So you can tell your friends you are EXP while you make one round trip a year?

js1993

In the span of maybe an hour, you've argued that the old elite programs are outdated, hence AA's changes, while also talking about enjoying free upgrades to international J while on a BE ticket, which didn't exist pre-Covid and which defeats the original purpose of BE. Doesn't add up.

It's clear AA doesn't have any real plan here. If AA doesn't make money from flying people, as you and others have claimed, then you're the exact type of person they should be trying to get rid of: A person who flies a lot on cheap fares and is "over rewarded" with perks and freebies.

VegasGambler

It makes sense. AA makes money from my activities through many revenue streams, not only flying. Overall I'm profitable. They make a little from flying, a little from CC spend, a little from the portal (maybe a lot from the portal) and a little from dining. None of those alone are worth EXP status, but add them up and you have a valuable enough customer to reward with upgrades on domestic flights.

js1993

A person who spends $18,000 on flying is an unwanted customer for AA because AA supposedly makes no money from flying. But a person who flies a lot for only $10,000 but also spends some money on the shopping portals is a super-valuable customer to the point of still being profitable after receiving and using four free SWUs?

That's utterly comical. There's no way you believe that, so I'm not sure why you're trying to convince the rest of us.

AA is trying to sell as many miles as possible while business travel is still way down, and then it will devalue miles in a massive way by 2023. That's AA's entire "plan" here.

VegasGambler

I'll probably take the miles over the SWUs. Flexibility is everything.

Look, AA is not run by idiots. They have chosen to encourage behavior like mine. I therefore infer that it's profitable for them.

Your assumption that it's not, without seeing their books, is the height of arrogance. Let's just ignore the decisions made by their executives who have access to all the data and all the analysis because someone who has none of this information thinks that he knows better how an airline should be run. That's what's comical.

The status requirements have changed because AA has made an informed decision to change them, backed by data, which undoubtedly shows that it will increase their profitability. That's all there is to it. It's how large businesses are run. No one in their right mind would walk into an executive's office and propose this change without having data to back it up.

js1993

Come on. AA is encouraging people to buy miles while hoping that they don't use the miles for months or years, if ever. That's AA's "plan" here.

According to your own and some other people's comments in this thread, you're the exact type of customer AA doesn't want: A person who flies a lot on cheap fares while soaking up a lot of benefits. There's simply no way that the ~$1,500 AA might make from your $100,000 of CC/portal spending somehow covers the various EXP-related expenses you're enjoying. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.

lol

You painted yourself into a corner with your massively contradictory claims. All I did was point that out.

Regardless, are you seriously arguing that AA's execs are a lot smarter than DL's and/or UA's?

thatmikereed

What specific costs is AA incurring? Moving someone up to an unsold F seat, domestically? Zero. Allowing them to use instruments or miles for unsold F/J seats internationally? Zero. Something else?

VegasGambler

Space-available upgrades that are only released when RM algorithms determine that they almost certainly can't sell the seat are certainly a nice perk for me, but they cost AA nothing. So of course my portal spending covers that. Almost all status perks are just about stack ranking passengers, not about AA spending extra money. I'm getting the nicer seat at the expense of another passenger, not AA. The only question that AA is trying to answer is "how should we stack rank passengers?". And you are claiming that you know better than them how to do that, even though they have access to the data and you don't.


Maybe just a few years ahead. I've said all along that the other airlines (certainly the legacies) will move to a similar model. This reminds me of all the crying and moaning that happened when airlines moved to revenue-based programs. All the legacies got in line with that pretty quickly.

js1993

If AA truly makes no money from flying people, why would it want to give away free domestic upgrades plus four SWUs when those "unsold seats" assuredly could be sold?

VegasGambler says he'll probably be taking miles instead of SWUs. Why would AA give free flights to people if they're already losing money by flying people?

You're a regular in the "earn EXP as cheaply as possible by gaming the LP system" threads. Funny how many of those people show up in other threads to argue that EXP doesn't really have much value or cost AA anything.

js1993

lol

Are you seriously telling me that no one would pay a couple hundred bucks for an upgrade to J on flights to Europe or Asia? Of course AA is forgoing revenue with SWUs. Let's be serious here.

A few years is an eternity in the airline business. You must believe AA's execs are a lot smarter than DL's or UA's, correct?