Aug 22, 2020, 1:08 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
American Airlines prohibits the practice known as “hidden city ticketing” (sometimes referred to as “skiplagging”, “throwaway ticketing” or “point beyond ticketing” as well).
When you purchase an American Airlines ticket you are agreeing to abide by their rules, terms and conditions. Some refer to this as a “contract of adhesion”. Your purchase is considered agreement to comply.Applicable American Airlines Conditions of Carriage (in part) — link
Prohibited booking practices
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
Applicable AAdvantage Terms and Conditions, in part — link
Fraud, misrepresentation, abuse or violation of applicable rules (including, but not limited to, American or American Eagle® conditions of carriage, tariffs and AAdvantage® program rules) is subject to administrative and/or legal action by appropriate governmental authorities and American Airlines. Such action may include, without limitation, the forfeiture of all award tickets and any accrued mileage in a member's account, as well as termination of the account and the member's future participation in the AAdvantage® program. If your account is terminated due to inappropriate conduct or while under investigation, you may not open a new AAdvantage® account or participate in the AAdvantage® Program in any capacity without obtaining the express written permission of American Airlines. In addition, American Airlines reserves the right to take appropriate legal action to recover damages, including its attorneys’ fees incurred in prosecuting any lawsuit.
When you purchase an American Airlines ticket you are agreeing to abide by their rules, terms and conditions. Some refer to this as a “contract of adhesion”. Your purchase is considered agreement to comply.Applicable American Airlines Conditions of Carriage (in part) — link
Prohibited booking practices
Reservations made to exploit or circumvent fare and ticket rules are prohibited.
Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Purchasing a ticket without intending to fly all flights to gain lower fares (hidden city ticketing)
- Buying a ticket without intending to travel, including to gain access to our airport lounges or other facilities
- Combining 2 or more roundtrip excursion fares end-to-end to circumvent minimum stay requirements (back-to-back ticketing)
- Booking a ticket in someone's name without the person's consent (which is illegal)
- Holding reservations for reasons like securing upgrades, blocking seats or obtaining lower fares
- Booking duplicate or impossible trips, for example multiple trips for the same passenger around the same time (trips a passenger physically could not complete)
- Cancel any unused part of the ticket
- Refuse to let the passenger fly and check bags
- Not refund an otherwise refundable ticket
- Charge you for what the ticket would have cost if you hadn't booked it fraudulently
- Require you refund to us any compensation we provided like bag delivery costs, and reimbursement for clothes or toiletries because of late or lost bags
Applicable AAdvantage Terms and Conditions, in part — link
Fraud, misrepresentation, abuse or violation of applicable rules (including, but not limited to, American or American Eagle® conditions of carriage, tariffs and AAdvantage® program rules) is subject to administrative and/or legal action by appropriate governmental authorities and American Airlines. Such action may include, without limitation, the forfeiture of all award tickets and any accrued mileage in a member's account, as well as termination of the account and the member's future participation in the AAdvantage® program. If your account is terminated due to inappropriate conduct or while under investigation, you may not open a new AAdvantage® account or participate in the AAdvantage® Program in any capacity without obtaining the express written permission of American Airlines. In addition, American Airlines reserves the right to take appropriate legal action to recover damages, including its attorneys’ fees incurred in prosecuting any lawsuit.
Hidden city ticketing is a way to find cheaper nonstop tickets by booking a connecting flight to a final destination beyond yours, but ending your journey at a layover point. You might find that a flight from New York to Nashville with a layover in Atlanta is cheaper than a nonstop ticket from New York to Atlanta, so you book the itinerary with the connection. But, when the plane stops in Atlanta, you end your journey there and are a no-show for the onward flight to Nashville. — scottscheapflights.com
Hidden City Audit - AA Demanding Payment or Account Termination
Aug 20, 2020, 6:26 pm
#61
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Bonvoy Titanium Elite
Posts: 1,969
I'd be interested to know how much money you saved OP .. If the ticket price difference for those 52 flights is more than $2500, sounds like it's still a win.
Aug 20, 2020, 7:02 pm
#62
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Programs: A: PP, LTG/1.5M | UA: SLV | Bonvoy LTTi | IHG PLT| Avis PC | Nat'l Emerald Club EE
Posts: 1,067
i think fessing up, perhaps acting like you thought it was ok, and communicating that you want to maintain AA as your airline if choice will go along way. Maybe a smaller offer along with that would be accepted (“funds are very tight, would $2k be sufficient?). While the odds of that being accepted may be less than 50%, unless someone has inside knowledge, I don’t believe it’s zero.
Assuming the numbers are as stated, the OP winds up paying 0.416 cents per mile to keep 600K RDM. Yeah, that stings--but 600K RDM > 0 RDM so...
Put another way, if the judge hands you a choice between a relatively low fine and a death sentence, haggling over the fine strikes me as exceedingly unwise.
cheers!
Aug 20, 2020, 7:17 pm
#64
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Programs: A: PP, LTG/1.5M | UA: SLV | Bonvoy LTTi | IHG PLT| Avis PC | Nat'l Emerald Club EE
Posts: 1,067
I'd be willing to bet actual money that this is simply the effect of AA deciding that they need more revenue and Corp Security coming up with the idea of trolling for frequent HC users and shaking them down.
I doubt greatly they will have gone through and re-priced all the segments given that would have to be a manual operation and they are simply too lazy for that. It's far more likely they will have simply priced each event at ~$50 as a threshold number for getting people to cough up. As the banked miles and status go up so too does the shake down demand. I'd be very surprised if there were a lot of people getting these demands over the next few months.
I doubt greatly they will have gone through and re-priced all the segments given that would have to be a manual operation and they are simply too lazy for that. It's far more likely they will have simply priced each event at ~$50 as a threshold number for getting people to cough up. As the banked miles and status go up so too does the shake down demand. I'd be very surprised if there were a lot of people getting these demands over the next few months.
I very much believe AA can reprice each segment over a quite extended historical period. I have no doubt all of the transportation industry keeps and uses extensive data on every jot and tittle having to do with what it costs and what they charge to move people and things.
As has already been mentioned, this is a contract issue pure and simple. AA Corporate Security does these audits on a continual basis and they conclude when they conclude. I don't think it's reasonable to think they ignore contract violations until it is convenient and desirable to increase revenue--if AA were to target a large number of customers as you suggest, it would be evident and provable (in addition to setting them up for the argument that there may clearly be a precedent for them accepting a "prohibited practice" in the COC/T/&C by failing to take action within some arguable reasonable amount time after the violation).
I do doubt very much AA's lawyers and corporate leadership would view such a short-term, short-sighted, and (very likely) insignificant money grab as a wise thing to do.
cheers!
Last edited by AAir_head; Aug 20, 2020 at 7:27 pm
Aug 20, 2020, 7:37 pm
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
Programs: AA EXP | Marriott Bonvoy Titanium| Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 11,252
I'm mangling the quote, and can't recall who said it: "Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by mere coincidence" [or incompetence; I've heard/used both].
I very much believe AA can reprice each segment over a quite extended historical period. I have no doubt all of the transportation industry keeps and uses extensive data on every jot and tittle having to do with what it costs and what they charge to move people and things.
As has already been mentioned, this is a contract issue pure and simple. AA Corporate Security does these audits on a continual basis and they conclude when they conclude. I don't think it's reasonable to think they ignore contract violations until it is convenient and desirable to increase revenue--if AA were to target a large number of customers as you suggest, it would be evident and provable (in addition to setting them up for the argument that there may clearly be a precedent for them accepting a "prohibited practice" in the COC/T/&C by failing to take action within some arguable reasonable amount time after the violation).
I do doubt very much AA's lawyers and corporate leadership would view such a short-term, short-sighted, and (very likely) insignificant money grab as a wise thing to do.
cheers!
I very much believe AA can reprice each segment over a quite extended historical period. I have no doubt all of the transportation industry keeps and uses extensive data on every jot and tittle having to do with what it costs and what they charge to move people and things.
As has already been mentioned, this is a contract issue pure and simple. AA Corporate Security does these audits on a continual basis and they conclude when they conclude. I don't think it's reasonable to think they ignore contract violations until it is convenient and desirable to increase revenue--if AA were to target a large number of customers as you suggest, it would be evident and provable (in addition to setting them up for the argument that there may clearly be a precedent for them accepting a "prohibited practice" in the COC/T/&C by failing to take action within some arguable reasonable amount time after the violation).
I do doubt very much AA's lawyers and corporate leadership would view such a short-term, short-sighted, and (very likely) insignificant money grab as a wise thing to do.
cheers!
Aug 20, 2020, 7:42 pm
#66
Join Date: Dec 2012
Programs: AA Plat Pro
Posts: 910
I'm mangling the quote, and can't recall who said it: "Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by mere coincidence" [or incompetence; I've heard/used both].
I very much believe AA can reprice each segment over a quite extended historical period. I have no doubt all of the transportation industry keeps and uses extensive data on every jot and tittle having to do with what it costs and what they charge to move people and things.
As has already been mentioned, this is a contract issue pure and simple. AA Corporate Security does these audits on a continual basis and they conclude when they conclude. I don't think it's reasonable to think they ignore contract violations until it is convenient and desirable to increase revenue--if AA were to target a large number of customers as you suggest, it would be evident and provable (in addition to setting them up for the argument that there may clearly be a precedent for them accepting a "prohibited practice" in the COC/T/&C by failing to take action within some arguable reasonable amount time after the violation).
I do doubt very much AA's lawyers and corporate leadership would view such a short-term, short-sighted, and (very likely) insignificant money grab as a wise thing to do.
cheers!
I very much believe AA can reprice each segment over a quite extended historical period. I have no doubt all of the transportation industry keeps and uses extensive data on every jot and tittle having to do with what it costs and what they charge to move people and things.
As has already been mentioned, this is a contract issue pure and simple. AA Corporate Security does these audits on a continual basis and they conclude when they conclude. I don't think it's reasonable to think they ignore contract violations until it is convenient and desirable to increase revenue--if AA were to target a large number of customers as you suggest, it would be evident and provable (in addition to setting them up for the argument that there may clearly be a precedent for them accepting a "prohibited practice" in the COC/T/&C by failing to take action within some arguable reasonable amount time after the violation).
I do doubt very much AA's lawyers and corporate leadership would view such a short-term, short-sighted, and (very likely) insignificant money grab as a wise thing to do.
cheers!
Aug 20, 2020, 7:50 pm
#67
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Programs: A: PP, LTG/1.5M | UA: SLV | Bonvoy LTTi | IHG PLT| Avis PC | Nat'l Emerald Club EE
Posts: 1,067
cheers!
Aug 20, 2020, 7:54 pm
#68
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Programs: A: PP, LTG/1.5M | UA: SLV | Bonvoy LTTi | IHG PLT| Avis PC | Nat'l Emerald Club EE
Posts: 1,067
cheers!
Aug 20, 2020, 8:03 pm
#69
Join Date: Feb 2014
Programs: Amex Plat, Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold, Carlson Gold, CM Presidential / *A Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 1,648
While AA did initially price the routes to be available to the public, it was OP who found the hidden city pricing for each of his 52 trips
Aug 20, 2020, 8:06 pm
#70
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Programs: A: PP, LTG/1.5M | UA: SLV | Bonvoy LTTi | IHG PLT| Avis PC | Nat'l Emerald Club EE
Posts: 1,067
Aug 20, 2020, 8:57 pm
#73
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: SLC, Ut ,USA
Programs: AAdvantage, Skymiles, Mileage Plus, BA Executive Club, WorldPerks
Posts: 405
Aug 20, 2020, 9:23 pm
#74
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Aug 20, 2020, 9:39 pm
#75
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,461
52 tickets?
This is like the guy Lufthansa sued for using a single refundable business class ticket to enter the LH lounge 36 times in a year.
As they say in the market, bears win, bulls win, pigs get slaughtered.
This is like the guy Lufthansa sued for using a single refundable business class ticket to enter the LH lounge 36 times in a year.
As they say in the market, bears win, bulls win, pigs get slaughtered.